Hey All! Counting the one below there is at least one other in the archive that follows this particular format where the ascii art
lines precede the "..." part of a normal tagline. Either way both formats work and the tagline will always follow the signoff
signature and precede the tearline. Life is good, Maurice
^-^-^-@@-^-^-^
(..)-----;
||---||
^^ ^^
... A Møøse once bit my sister ...
^-^-^-@@-^-^-^
(..)-----;
||---||
^^ ^^
... A Møøse once bit my sister ...
So another version of your tagline generator?
@MSGID: 1:153/7001.2989 5fadbe11
@CHRS: UTF-8 4
@RFC-3339: 2020-11-12 14:58:25-08:00
Counting the one below there is at least one other in the archive that follows this particular format where the ascii art lines precede the
"..." part of a normal tagline. Either way both formats work and the tagline will always follow the signoff signature and precede the
tearline.
@RFC-3339: 2020-11-12 14:58:25-08:00
Missing the TZUTC flag! ;-)
@MSGID: 1:153/7001.2989 5fae31ae
@REPLY: 2:280/464 5fae2dd1
@CHRS: UTF-8 4
@RFC-3339: 2020-11-12 23:11:42.777259306-08:00
@RFC-3339: 2020-11-12 14:58:25-08:00
Missing the TZUTC flag! ;-)
It's in there along with other very useful information. Check this out;
-={ '<Esc>:read !TZ=UTC date --rfc-3339=sec --date="2020-11-12 14:58:25-08:00"' starts }=- 2020-11-12 22:58:25+00:00 -={ '<Esc>:read !TZ=UTC date --rfc-3339=sec --date="2020-11-12 14:58:25-08:00"' ends }=-
Much better.
As I'm not sure any software actually uses the TZUTC flag it
would be better, although it's not a fidonet standard afaik...
although it's not a fidonet standard afaik
Missing the TZUTC flag! ;-)
As I'm not sure any software actually uses the TZUTC flag it would be better, although it's not a fidonet standard afaik...
I was aware of people working on using TZUTC but have yet to see it in action.
OpenXP does a fine job of it.
Missing the TZUTC flag! ;-)
As I'm not sure any software actually uses the TZUTC flag it would be
better, although it's not a fidonet standard afaik...
The time of post is not necessarily critical. But it is cool to recognize that when a post is dated and uses tzutc, and processed with a capable reader, it reveals the time relative to one's own local time.
Anyhow it is doable but requires additional processing in order to
honour an obsolete datetime stamp (two digit year) and a corrupted utc offset which lacks the required '+' prefix for timezones east of prime meridian.
Again, that is not a requirement for the fidonet TZUTC flag.
Again, that is not a requirement for the fidonet TZUTC flag.
By default, it is for the RFC-3339 flag. Same with the full year.
But that's not the TZUTC flag.
It even has the proper C0 control codes in it as per specs.
But that's not the TZUTC flag. ;)
That's my story and I am sticking to it.
@TZUTC: 0000
@RFC-3339: 2020-11-13 22:50:32+0000
But that's not the TZUTC flag. ;)
I forgot to turn them both on in the last reply. Let me know if it actually makes a difference. Also I took the liberty of dropping the ':' character between hours and minutes in the TZ part of the RFC-3339 flag which now perfectly matches the digits in the TZUTC flag. It makes no difference to it's enhanced usage over the both the MSG header datetime stamp with the TZUTC and vastly eliminates much code in order to make TZUTC
useful.
It's in UTC on this message, the next one is ok though...
It's in UTC on this message, the next one is ok though...
It's in UTC on this message, the next one is ok though...
UTC is correct for this node.
UTC is correct for this node.
Is that node located in the 0 meridian timezone?
I'm guessing it's not, so that wouldn't be correct...
UTC is correct for this node.
Is that node located in the 0 meridian timezone?
Nowhere near prime meridian but UTC is still the benchmark for syncing networks. All the system's times here are still UTC which makes things vastly easier for sorting and other pruposes such as scheduling network events and the such.
I'm guessing it's not, so that wouldn't be correct...
It is correct.
Saying otherwise would be wrong such as "TZUTC: 0000" instead of
"TZUTC: +0000". FTS-4008 is wrong, wrong, wrong and is the source of corruption for those east of prime meridian.
So now that I've included TZUTC in all of the MSGs originating from
here has it made any difference there in any meaningful way?
they also know their location and offset to UTC, so they can
present the correct localtime.
FTS-4008 Is right by definition. It's the fidonet standard.
has it made any difference there in any meaningful way?
Only if it's not 'TZUTC: 0000'. ;)
they also know their location and offset to UTC, so they can
present the correct localtime.
When it presents the localtime exactly what information is it providing?
FTS-4008 Is right by definition. It's the fidonet standard.
My country right or wrong?
FTS-4008 is a seriously flawed document.
It takes a legitimate concept (utc offset) and bastardizes it for no apparent reason. It should get the heave-ho. Something like the
RFC-3339 flag would be a much better approach for compensating for the current flaws in fidonet standards.
has it made any difference there in any meaningful way?
Only if it's not 'TZUTC: 0000'. ;)
Within this msg is one that presents a legitimate utc offset (-0800) encased in a TZUTC flag. Does it make a difference?
Hi Maurice,
On 2020-11-15 07:35:14, you wrote to me:
they also know their location and offset to UTC, so they can
present the correct localtime.
When it presents the localtime exactly what information is it providing?
Asking the question is answering it: localtime.
FTS-4008 Is right by definition. It's the fidonet standard.
My country right or wrong?
What does your country have to do with it?
FTS-4008 is a seriously flawed document.
No it isn't. It just documents current practice, as it was in fidonet at the time it was drafted.
It takes a legitimate concept (utc offset) and bastardizes it for no apparent reason. It should get the heave-ho. Something like the RFC-3339 flag would be a much better approach for compensating for the
current flaws in fidonet standards.
It is how it is in fidonet. I would say almost impossible to change. So you will just have to live with it.
has it made any difference there in any meaningful way?
Only if it's not 'TZUTC: 0000'. ;)
Within this msg is one that presents a legitimate utc offset (-0800) encased in a TZUTC flag. Does it make a difference?
Yes, now I know the real localtime when the message was written. I think that's usefull information. It makes a difference when some one writes a message in the middle of the night or during the day...
Bye, Wilfred.
Yes, now I know the real localtime when the message was written. I
think that's usefull information. It makes a difference when some
one writes a message in the middle of the night or during the day...
It ultimately depends on where you KNOW someone resides. For instance,
my posts from Veleno are timestamped Italian time, but unless you know where I actually live, you can't say.. "Aug wrote that at 3am! He
needs help."
Hi August,
On 2020-11-15 19:54:12, you wrote to me:
Yes, now I know the real localtime when the message was written. I WvV>> think that's usefull information. It makes a difference when some WvV>> one writes a message in the middle of the night or during the day...
It ultimately depends on where you KNOW someone resides. For instance,
my posts from Veleno are timestamped Italian time, but unless you know
where I actually live, you can't say.. "Aug wrote that at 3am! He needs help."
I know it isn't perfect, but most of the time it works...
Bye, Wilfred.
Asking the question is answering it: localtime.
What does your country have to do with it?
It is how it is in fidonet. I would say almost impossible to
change. So you will just have to live with it.
I think that's usefull information.
It ultimately depends on where you KNOW someone resides. ForWithin this msg is one that presents a legitimate utc offset(-0800) MK> encased in a TZUTC flag. Does it make a difference?
Yes, now I know the real localtime when the message was written.
I think that's usefull information. It makes a difference when
some one writes a message in the middle of the night or during
the day... Bye, Wilfred.
instance, my posts from Veleno are timestamped Italian time, but
unless you know where I actually live, you can't say.. "Aug wrote
that at 3am! He needs help."
Yes, now I know the real localtime when the message was
written. I think that's usefull information. It makes a
difference when some one writes a message in the middle of the
night or during the day...
It ultimately depends on where you KNOW someone resides. ForI know it isn't perfect, but most of the time it works...
instance, my posts from Veleno are timestamped Italian time, but
unless you know where I actually live, you can't say.. "Aug wrote
that at 3am! He needs help."
Where the real magic resides, I find, is in a program that can utilize
the TZUTC info in such a way it organizes the message in true chronological order in a thread - and not based on arrival time. For instance, if don't read an echo for days, but different people write messages with true replies prior to that at different times, the
actual order of the messages in a thread are connected to a parent
message in the time order that people thus spoke.
It is how it is in fidonet. I would say almost impossible to
change. So you will just have to live with it.
Or ignore it which is probably what I will end up doing soon. However I do
not cede my right to bitch about it again in the future if it strikes my fancy.
I think that's usefull information.
If that is all you require then I'd suggest the RFC-3339, or something like
it, is the way to go. No harm, no foul.
I know it isn't perfect, but most of the time it works...
Does it actually matter whether I wrote this at 11:45 am (actual time for me) or 11:45pm?
Of course, and I think I called you Don Quichot before. ;)
It will do for that, as long as it displays the real timezone
of the user, and not 0000 when he's not in the UK.
Of course, and I think I called you Don Quichot before. ;)
I've been called worse. Anyhow it doesn't change the fact that I am right about dropping the '+' character, as well as the obsolete datetime stamp.
I could also note that some people are still getting the CHRS wrong according to fidonet specs.
but like the TZUTC flag it appears to be a flag that doesn't really do anything.
Just like the FTSC. ;-)
It will do for that, as long as it displays the real timezone
of the user, and not 0000 when he's not in the UK.
Or South Africa. They aren't in the UK and +0000 is just as real to them. Beats me if any of them use the TZUTC flag but I am guessing not.
I've been called worse. Anyhow it doesn't change the fact that I
am right about dropping the '+' character, as well as the
obsolete datetime stamp.
No your wrong, it works according to the fidonet standard.
Just like the FTSC. ;-)If you don't like what they do, you should join them, so you can
change that! ;)
There are no African nodes anymore nor Portugese, but there are nodes
in the UK.
I've been called worse. Anyhow it doesn't change the fact that I
am right about dropping the '+' character, as well as the
obsolete datetime stamp.
No your wrong, it works according to the fidonet standard.
He has a wrong something, and a right something but you did mean to say "you're", I'm sure.
Just like the FTSC. ;-)
If you don't like what they do, you should join them, so you can
change that! ;)
I would be happy to nominate Maurice. (I don't think you can.)
There are no African nodes anymore nor Portugese, but there are nodes
in the UK.
The singular African refugee resides in Zone 3 now.
No your wrong, it works according to the fidonet standard.
Keep fighting those windmills! ;)
I could also note that some people are still getting the CHRS wrong
according to fidonet specs.
That's true. Although "people" should be "software".
I know golded can when properly configured.
If you don't like what they do, you should join them, so you can
change that! ;)
I would be happy to nominate Maurice.
I can also ask my RC to nominate him, if he wants to be
nominated...
I know golded can when properly configured.
If so then please explain "CHRS: UTF-8 2" with respect to FTS-5003. Also golded corrupts utf-8 characters (same with msged) when it tries to actually use them, with or without a CHRS flag. I haven't noticed if it makes adjustments when it encounters a TZUTC flag. Does it?
If you don't like what they do, you should join them, so you can
change that! ;)
I'll get right on that.
I can also ask my RC to nominate him, if he wants to be
nominated...
Nominated for what?
If you're serious, there should be elections for new members in
the coming months...
If you're serious, there should be elections for new members in
the coming months...
What if I am not serious? Will there still be elections? ;-)
I thought they were held every year starting in October-ish.
That was the case untill last year, when the new chairman forgot
about it, and it was moved up a couple of months.
Hi Maurice, On 2020-11-16 06:46:41, you wrote to me:
I can also ask my RC to nominate him, if he wants to be
nominated...
Nominated for what?FTSC member,
I would be happy to nominate Maurice.
For what?
Another nowhere avenue of 'the pursuit of adventure' in Fidonet: membership in the FTSC. That'll dull the grey matter in no time.
Another nowhere avenue of 'the pursuit of adventure' in Fidonet: membership in the FTSC. That'll dull the grey matter in no time.
Something like getting a promotion just before they fire you? I've
heard of that happening.
Close. It's called the 'Richard Principle': promote them on to
another suck^h^h^h^hluckless supervisor.
Close. It's called the 'Richard Principle': promote them on to
another suck^h^h^h^hluckless supervisor.
Supervisor of what?
Case in point: FTSC (Secretary). The subject nominee might be
considered an advantageous, valued team member.
Case in point: FTSC (Secretary). The subject nominee might be
considered an advantageous, valued team member.
I'd advise holding out for the badge and/or super-secret decoder ring.
That was the case untill last year, when the new chairman forgot
about it, and it was moved up a couple of months.
I recall that. Seems an odd thing for the chairman to forget about.
We'll see when it comes up and in the meantime I'll think about it.
Thank you for your encouragment although I have to wonder if I am not stepping into something that would be best to leave alone. It might
turn out I have more impact - if indeed I have ever had any impact -
as an outsider to the FTSC. From this perspective it doesn't appear
being an FTSC member has any real influence over so-called standards.
Am I missing something?
Hi Maurice, On 2020-11-16 06:46:41, you wrote to me:
I can also ask my RC to nominate him, if he wants to be
nominated...
Nominated for what?
FTSC member,
Can I run for benevolent dictator for life?
Is that a thing?
Nominated for what?
FTSC member,
Can I run for benevolent dictator for life?You can try. ;)
Is that a thing?The FTSC has no real power, and you would only have a few
disciples...
Ermm... bribery won't work.
I would have volunteered you, freely.
I know, and I even thought about implementing such a function in
FMail. But it would be difficult to do it right. Because for instance there are messages without the TZUTC kludge. How do you sort those.
...So lots of things that can go wrong, so I never took the time. ;)
Hi Maurice,
On 2020-11-16 13:28:16, you wrote to me:
That was the case untill last year, when the new chairman forgot
about it, and it was moved up a couple of months.
I recall that. Seems an odd thing for the chairman to forget about.
He was new to the job. And the FTSC is probably not very active, since the previous chairman left. But I don't really know, except I see no updated or documents apear, so I could be wrong...
We'll see when it comes up and in the meantime I'll think about it. Thank you for your encouragment although I have to wonder if I am not stepping into something that would be best to leave alone. It might turn out I have more impact - if indeed I have ever had any impact -
as an outsider to the FTSC. From this perspective it doesn't appear being an FTSC member has any real influence over so-called standards.
Am I missing something?
The FTSC is about documenting current practise. So if you think you can chan the standards to include general internet practise, your in the wrong place. You're probably better of in for instance NET_DEV and try to convince other developers to change their products to do so. But that can only be done in a backwards compatible way, because of all the legacy software that is still i use but can't be changed, because the developers left fidonet (a long time ago).
And bitching about it in ASIAN_LINK has very little to no effect. ;)
Bye, Wilfred.
Hey Paul!
Ermm... bribery won't work.
I don't have any badges.
I would have volunteered you, freely.
What have I done to deserve it?
Life is good,
Maurice
... Werig sceal se wiþ winde roweþ.
Weary shall he be who rows against the wind.
... Werig sceal se wiþ winde roweþ.
Weary shall he be who rows against the wind.
Hehehe,
here's a little secret. Anyone can make a proposal. It just
doesn't get changed to a 'standard' unless widely in use.
Anyone can make a proposal. It just doesn't get changed to a
'standard' unless widely in use.
And yes I do realize that I am a prolific poster in FTSC_PUBLIC
which could be interpretted as skewing the data but to be honest
I have no issue with that. How about you?
If that doesn't smell of "forwards backwards compatibilty" I
don't know what "forwards backwards compatibility" is.
-={ Corrected DateTime for those in the know: 2020-12-26 21:53:58 +0000 }=-
Hey Carol!
... Werig sceal se wiþ winde roweþ.
Weary shall he be who rows against the wind.
Hehehe,
Truer words were never spoken even after well over 1000 years have gone by. Did Anglo-Saxons have fidonet nodes? If so then I think I give new meaning backwards compatibilty.
here's a little secret. Anyone can make a proposal. It just
doesn't get changed to a 'standard' unless widely in use.
So I've noticed. What do you think my odds are? So far I've only heard the word 'impossible' which is probably what motivated me to take the chance. A without the election being called I thought I'd give it a shot if for no oth reson than to increase the traffic here, and on that count I think I might h outdone even an election here would have on this regard.
And on that note I believe I am a winner. :-)
Life is good,
Maurice
... Don't cry for me I have vi.
-={ Corrected DateTime for those in the know: 2020-12-27 15:32:10 -0800 }=-
Hey Carol!
Anyone can make a proposal. It just doesn't get changed to a 'standard' unless widely in use.
It occurs to me that 'widely in use' for something that isn't a 'standard' i going to be difficult to prove. However I am formulating an evil, demented plan that would scan msg's posted in FTSC_PUBLIC that contain the so-called corrected DateTime stamp, known as '%F %T %z' in strftime-speak, no matter where it is placed in the msg_body which includes kludges or such as in the line of this reply or even quoted. Thus this reply if posted in FTSC_PULIC would be counted as both a post and a positive hit for the corrected DateTim stamp whereas the msg I am replying to would only be counted as a post and n as a hit for the corrected DateTime stamp.
I haven't written the routine yet but am thinking Jan. 1, 2021 would be the target date for implimentation.
And yes I do realize that I am a prolific poster in FTSC_PUBLIC which could interpretted as skewing the data but to be honest I have no issue with that. How about you?
Life is good,
Maurice
... Don't cry for me I have vi.
Well, from what I see it's the normal resistance
Hey Carol!
Well, from what I see it's the normal resistance
Which is much less than I usually got there when bringing up such topics in past. Mind you most (all?) of that came from the previous moderator/chairperson.
Most interesting was all the real feedback posting the major alteration to fts-0001.016 generated within FTSC_PUBLIC. I haven't see that happen since forever?
Life is good,
Maurice
... Mon sceal... gebidan þæs he gebædan ne mæg.
One must wait for what cannot be hastened.
I'm a little behind there but I'll catch up.
I'm a little behind there but I'll catch up.
Hey Carol!
I'm a little behind there but I'll catch up.
I replied to this on the node but am having some connection issues so I'm go to see what happens when I use this link. Please feel free to ignore this reply.
Life is good,
Maurice
... Ne wurðe þe næfre to þys wa, þæt ðu þe ne wene betran.
Never become so sorrowful that you do not hope for better things.
It's ok! I just spent a 3 week very heavy work schedule with 3
RADM briefs all within the same week. Lots of work! BBS sat to
the side.
-={ 2021-01-30 18:24:24.737908806+00:00 }=-
Hey Carol!
It's ok! I just spent a 3 week very heavy work schedule with 3
RADM briefs all within the same week. Lots of work! BBS sat to
the side.
Sounds to me like standard operating procedures. From this angle it appears you didn't miss anything so I agree that 'it's ok!'
Life is good,
Maurice
... Soþ hit sylf acyþeð.
Truth will make itself known.
just a minor spat as the FTSC election comes up
See it soon!
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