Hello Nathanael,

Why did NASA claim to have landed a man on the Moon and to
have brought him safely back to Earth? The real reason was not

It didn't. NASA sent 18 men to the moon, landed 12 of them, and return

them

all safely to earth.

Those are merely claims, nothing that has been independently verified.

Where is independent verification that man has ever set foot
on the Moon? Lack of proof is not denial. If I claim to be

*YAWN*. There is a LOT of third-party verification. Independent
lunar missions including including the Japanese SELENE probe, India's Chandrayaan-1, and the lunar reconnaissance orbiter have photographed the Apollo sites and abandoned equipment, for starters. Even China claimed its Chang'e 2 lunar probe found traces of the Apollo landings.

Total BS. Claims are not independently verified facts. If I claim
to be Superman, does that make it true? Even if Donald Trump claims
I am Superman, does that make true? Of course not. Those who do
believe it are deluded, or would be, unless I truly am Superman.

Just because NASA says something is true does not make it true.
Just because somebody else says somthing is true does not make it
true. Claims have to be *independently* verified, otherwise there
would be no basis for anybody to believe anything that has been
claimed.

NASA made the claims. The burden of proof is on NASA to prove,
absolutely in some cases, that its claims are true.
It is not up to others to disprove a claim that has been made.
In this case, there is much reason to doubt the claims that
NASA has made, as there is no compelling evidence that clearly
shows or demonstrates that NASA's claims are true.

Each Apollo mission a laser-tracking reflector at its landing site which

are

still in use by ground-based observatories today.

Such reflectors could have been placed before and/or after the alleged
Moon landings took place, without the need for any human presence.

And the Apollo missions were tracked real-time by numerous sources around the world, including by the Soviet Union.

Missiles are still being tracked by various nations of the world.
That does not mean any humans are aboard those missiles.

--Lee

--
Make Sure Your Next Erection Is In Safe Hands

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Just because somebody else says somthing is true does not make it

Just because Lee Lofaso says the moon landings are a hoax doesn't make it
true.

Claims have to be *independently* verified, otherwise there

I'm pretty sure at this stage you wouldn't know an "*independently* verified" fact if someone rubbed your nose in it until your nostrils bled.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (jenandcal.familyds.org:2323) (3:712/886)

Hello Nathanael,

Just because somebody else says somthing is true does not make it

Just because Lee Lofaso says the moon landings are a hoax doesn't make it true.

It is not the duty of others to disprove a claim, but rather
those who make the claim to show it as being credible.

While NASA has spun a tale that most folks would love to believe,
it is not established fact, as none of those claims have been
independently verified. Not by journalists or reporters, or by
any other credible source.

NASA's word is not good enough.

After Gary Powers was captured by Soviets after his plane
crashed in USSR territory, US President Dwight Eisenhower had
to publicly admit the obvious. What do you think will happen
when a real lunar landing takes place by astronauts from a
country other than the US? When those astronauts find no
footprints or other evidence of US astronauts ever having
landed on the Moon, the US President is going to have a lot
of explaining to do.

Claims have to be *independently* verified, otherwise there

I'm pretty sure at this stage you wouldn't know an "*independently* verified" fact if someone rubbed your nose in it until your nostrils bled.

Russia is planning to verify the conspiracy theory concerning
the faked Moon landings. Keep in mind that 28% of Russians believe
all six manned landings were faked. And it is not just Russians,
but also 25% of Britons, and 20% of Americans.

The US does not have a monopoly on ignorance. Neither does
anyplace else. Perhaps we are all idiots. Sometimes that seems
to be the case, and maybe justly so.

An orbiter takes pictures of the flags planted on the Moon,
showing the flags and shadows. Conspiracy theorists claim the
pictures were faked. No way to prove it one way or another.

Any other "proof" that comes their way can also be questioned,
with no way to conclusively prove a thing.

Unless a feat can be duplicated by somebody else, it is extremely
difficult a claim as being absolute proof.

Kind of like a magician pulling a rabbit out of his hat.
Or sawing a woman in half while inside of a box. A magician
is performing an illusion, making something appear to be real,
that isn't really real. "How did he do that?" the audience
gasps. The magician never reveals his secrets ...

How many reporters/journalists have traveled to the Moon and back?
None that I know of.

Except for the fine folks in Jules Verne's story, no character that
I know of has ever been to the Moon, much less returned to Earth to
tell the tale.

We read a tale knowing it is fiction. We enjoy the tale, and
maybe even think of it as being real. But we know it is fiction,
and never really take it as being fact.

But what if we are told that something is real by those whom
we trust and believe are telling us truth? No matter how fake,
most will believe the lie, without ever questioning the lie
or those who told it.

Verne's story was fiction, where anything and everything is possible.
NASA's story is also fiction, except their story being backed by
government funds. People believed it because it was based on false
logic - an appeal to authority. But that does not mean such a lunar
venture was ever possible.

--Lee

--
Sleep With Someone New

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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NASA's word is not good enough.

No, of course it's not. You will deny any and all evidence, no matter how compelling, to cling to your conspiracy theories.

all six manned landings were faked. And it is not just Russians,
but also 25% of Britons, and 20% of Americans.

MPAI.

It is not the duty of others to disprove a claim, but rather
those who make the claim to show it as being credible.

Nonsense. No one is asking you to prove a negative. You have made a claim. It is your job to support it. You claimed the moon landings are a fairy tale:

"People took pride in a fairy tale they had been led to believe had come
true."

That is not the denial of a claim; it is itself a claim for which you will
need to provide credible evidence. And no, "Neil Armstrong is rumored to have disclosed" something to some "unnamed professor" doesn't come close to credible.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. You can deny all the evidence you like; none of that proves the moon landings did not happen. To make THAT claim requires evidence. You have none.

I won't call you an idiot, as others have done.

But that won't stop me thinking it.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (jenandcal.familyds.org:2323) (3:712/886)

Hello Dale,

That is very true. The time and effort by myself and many others is
why I have no interest in trying it again.

MVDV>> Same here. I was very disappointed when it failed. No use pointing
MVDV>> fingers, but I am out. I am not going to put any more time and
MVDV>> energy in it. I have learned to live with P4 as it is and
MVDV>> have done so for 25+ years. Ik can live with it for what
MVDV>> remains of my Fidolife.

And on this, we are in complete agreement. Both of us (and others) put
a lot of effort into coming up with a meaningful revision. In the end,
we did not even get a quorum of the RCs to vote on it (although a
majority of those voting did agree).

That is why we need to start from scratch.
Out with the old, in with the new ...

--Lee

--
Pork. The One You Love.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Dale,

Or simply write a new one, as what you have was never
legitimately passed and ratified in any zone.

It was voted on and passed by a majority of the *Cs at the time.

No such vote was ever legitimately introduced or voted on
in any zone. With no vote ever having been taken in any zone,
P4 was never passed and ratified.

What some of the *Cs did was have a vote amongst themselves
at some private party (such as at a pizza joint), then claim
their vote was for everybody in Fidonet.

Which is why no sysop in Fidonet is obligated to recognize
said vote as being valid or legitimate. Regardless of zone.

Therefore, I, Lee Lofaso, have decided that once I have been
recognized as being a sysop in good standing, I shall introduce
a new policy document for Fidonet. We can start in whatever
zone decides to recognize me as a full-fledged sysop.

--Lee

--
Often Licked, Never Beaten

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Neil Armstrong (allegedly the first man on the Moon) is
rumored to have disclosed his account of what he and "Buzz"
Aldrin saw to an unnamed college professor during a NASA
symposium.

Just to remind everybody what verified scientific proof Lee has.

'rumoured to have'

'unnamed collage professor'

Can we now please stop feeding the troll?





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Hello Bj÷rn!

01 May 19 17:58, Bj÷rn Felten wrote to Lee Lofaso:

Just to remind everybody what verified scientific proof Lee has.

'rumoured to have'
'unnamed collage professor'

Sounds just like "I heard it at University 50 years ago" to me.

Can we now please stop feeding the troll?

Sure.


Regards,
Gerrit

... 7:30PM up 15 days, 3:51, 7 users, load averages: 0.35, 0.31, 0.31

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: Is serving every man (2:240/12)

On 2019 May 01 17:58:48, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

Can we now please stop feeding the troll?

do you want to borrow my sign? :lol:

==== Begin "feedatroll.txt" ====

_____________________
/| /| | |
||__|| | Do not feed the |
/ O O\__ | trolls. Thank you. |
/ \ | --Mgt. |
/ \ \|_____________________|
/ _ \ \ ||
/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
/ \|_|_|/ | _||
/ / \ |____| ||
/ | | | --|
| | | |____ --|
* _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
*-- _--\ _ \ | ||
/ _ \\ | / `
* / \_ /- | | |
* ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________

==== End "feedatroll.txt" ====

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... When life gives me lemons, I make orange juice. I mess up every thing.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello Bj”rn,

Neil Armstrong (allegedly the first man on the Moon) is
rumored to have disclosed his account of what he and "Buzz"
Aldrin saw to an unnamed college professor during a NASA
symposium.

Just to remind everybody what verified scientific proof Lee has.

'rumoured to have'

'unnamed collage professor'

Can we now please stop feeding the troll?

Feed the trolls. It's important.

Trolls are good. And necessary for the survival of Fidonet.
As such, we should thank them. And help them. By nourishing
them with by all that helps them flourish in our community.

Remember, there are many different kinds of trolls. Each
with his/her own flavor. We know who they are. Especially
the most common types, many in this very forum.

While I will not name names, I am sure you will recognize
them by a description of who they are. Here are some of the
most loveable, or despicable (depending on POV) of the lot -

The insult trolls. These trolls like to imitate the late
Don Rickles, who was a true performance artist, known as the
king of insult. These guys (and dolls) are pure haters, no
doubt about it. They have taken the art of insult to new
levels, even beyond what Don Rickles could do. They pick on
everyone and anyone - without exception - having absolutely
no morals or ethics of their own. Yes, you know who they
are. And you tolerate them, although nobody knows why.
I mean, these trolls accuse people of certain things, call
them names, anything they can do to get a negative emotional
response - or better yet to cause them to have a mental
breakdown. This type of trolling can become so severe that
these trolls should be sent back to reform school - or
wherever they came from - to that they can be cured of their
illness. Which I doubt can be cured.

The debate trolls are different. Much different. These
trolls love to debate. About anything and everything. Makes
no difference if they know what they are talking about. They
just like to debate. Persistently and forever. Without end.
Some of them put in lots of time to research what they are
talking about, and know more than those who brought up whatever
subject that has been brought up. Of course, their message is
always to challenge the message, regardless of what that message
is. These trolls know they are right, and everybody else is
wrong. That is their reason for being. These trolls are so
determined they are right that they continue ranting about
what they are saying well after everybody else has quit.

Then there are the nazi police. You know the kind. Always
correcting folks about their poor use of grammar and spelling.
So please. Make sure you always dot your i's and cross your
t's so as never to run across these trolls.

Some trolls are offended. By everything. Doesn't matter what.
They are forever offended by something. Whatever is discussed,
they are offended. Including jokes. And then they light up
the fireworks and let them fly. Thank goodness it is all digital
fireworks and not the other kind. These trolls are so good at
what they do that nobody can match them. Taking humorous pieces
of content and turning them into an argument by playing the victim.
Now that is more than good, or very good. Some call it pure genius.

The blabbermouth troll is something else. Always showing off
while knowing absolutely nothing about anything. Kind of like
the persistent debate troll, perhaps cousins. Not sure if I
would call them brothers or sisters, as that would be an insult
to other trolls. Unlike like most trolls, the blabbermouth
troll does not like to participate in arguments, preferring to
tell his/her opinion in extreme detail, even if his/her opinion
has absolutely nothing to do with the topic under discussion.
Kind of like a family member or friend who likes to hear the
sound of his/her own voice at the dinner table. They don't
care if anybody else hears them or not. They just keep on
going. And going. And going.

Apart from the intelligent trolls, noted earlier, there is the
profanity and all-caps troll. You know the kind. Having nothing
better to do with one's time, these trolls type in F-bombs and
other curse words - always with their all-caps key locked on.

There are other kinds of trolls, usually found only on Facebook,
but sometimes here when they get lost, such as the one word only
troll. These trolls are far more limited in ability, and rarely
type in anything more than "lol" or "what" or "k" or "yes" or
"no". Far from the worst kind of troll you meet online, but
still ...

We have all met the exaggeration trolls. These trolls are
kind of a combination of other kinds of trolls, not all of them
one and the same. They just like to exaggerate. About everything.
Just give them a topic they want to talk about. And off they go.
These trolls blow everything totally out of proportion. I am
not exactly sure as to how they do it, but they do. And believe
me, they are very good at what they do. Sometimes they do it
to be funny. Sometimes they succeed in making others believe
they know what they are talking about. Others do it for no other
reason than to be annoying.

We have all met the off topic troll. You know the kind. The
troll who never knows what he/she is talking about. Always
bringing up an off-topic message, having absolutely nothing to
do about whatever is being discussed. When this troll succeeds
in shifting the topic and everyone ends up talking about whatever
irrelevant thing the troll has posted, it really makes his/her
day. Even if the troll has left the scene. You see this all
the time in Facebook posts, threaded YouTube comments, on
Twitter and anywhere else there are active discussions going on.

And then there are the greedy spammer trolls. We all know who
they are. Impossible to get rid of, no matter how hard we try.
This is the kind of troll who could care less about your post
or discussion and is only there to benefit himself/herself.
You know the kind. Wants you to check out his/her page. Buy
from his/her link. Use his/her coupon code. Download his/her
free ebook. You see them all the time on social media with
their "follow me!!!" posts.

So. There you go. And these are just some of the most
common types of trolls. There are more. Many more ...

"Trolls just want to have fun." ~Anon

--Lee

--
As Good As It Looks

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello mark,

Can we now please stop feeding the troll?

do you want to borrow my sign? :lol:

I like mine better, thankyouberrymuch. :)

______________________
/| /| | |
||__|| | Please. Do feed the |
/ O O\__ | trolls. Thank you. |
/ \ | --Mgt. |
/ \ \|______________________|
/ _ \ \ ||
/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
/ \|_|_|/ | _||
/ / \ |____| ||
/ | | | --|
| | | |____ --|
* _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
*-- _--\ _ \ | ||
/ _ \\ | / `
* / \_ /- | | |
* ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________

--Lee

--
Change Is Cumming

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Sounds just like "I heard it at University 50 years ago" to me.

I never said that. I *studied* him and his work at uni 50 years ago. Big difference.



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Hello Björn!

02 May 19 03:09, Björn Felten wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Sounds just like "I heard it at University 50 years ago" to me.

I never said that.

No, that's just me summing up what you said.

I *studied* him and his work at uni 50 years ago.

You didn't say that before, either.
If you did study him as you claim, it should be easy enough for you to come up with some verifiable reference. Been reading Sagan's essay meanwhile?

Big difference.

Yeah, makes your claim even more unbelievable.


Regards,
Gerrit

... 8:24PM up 17 days, 4:45, 7 users, load averages: 0.53, 0.39, 0.35

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
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If you did study him as you claim, it should be easy enough for you to come up with some verifiable reference.

http://tinyurl.com/2rfwr




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