16 Nov 19 10:06, you wrote to Nick Andre:

BTW, regarding "Encouraging new technologies in Fidonet software development" (FTA-1000, 1.2), how is your IPv6? Any progress?

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: * nigirO (2:280/464.47)

Just ignore it, it was an unfinished message that was sent unintentionally. I will ask my question in the IPV6 area.

16 Nov 19 10:06, you wrote to Nick Andre:

BTW, regarding "Encouraging new technologies in Fidonet software
development" (FTA-1000, 1.2), how is your IPv6? Any progress?

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: * nigirO (2:280/464.47)

Hello Oli,

On Saturday November 16 2019 11:37, you wrote to me:

BTW, regarding "Encouraging new technologies in Fidonet software
development" (FTA-1000, 1.2), how is your IPv6? Any progress?

You rang?

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hello Oli,

On Saturday November 16 2019 12:17, you wrote to you:

Just ignore it, it was an unfinished message that was sent unintentionally. I will ask my question in the IPV6 area.

OK.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hello Oliver,

On Sunday November 17 2019 14:25, Oli wrote to me:

MvdV>> So... speaking about improving things, moving forward and
MvdV>> encouraging the use of new technology... How is your IPv6?

I agree that we would be better off, if the Internet had already
switched from IPv4 to IPv6. It's also important that Fido software do support IPv6 connections and is not limited to IPv4.

So we agree on that.

I'm still curious why do you think it is important that every Fido
node is reachable over IPv6?

Did I say that? Well whatever, I suggest you read my Fidonews articles about it. Hunt for "IPv6" in the Fidonews archive of the last decade. You will find about a dozen articles.

As long as systems are able to connect to each other what difference
does it make?

At the moment not much. But it will not stay that way. By implementing IPv6 we are preparing fo the future.

Having more or less Fido nodes with IPv6 does not influence IPv6
adaption, this is something that Internet providers need to solve.

Customers pestering their ISPs /does/ influence IPv6 adaptation.

But that is not the goal. What happened to that pioneer spirit that once made Fidonet grow exponentially? In those days one did not have to explain why, sysops just did it.

If we want to encourage the use of new technology, why don't we have
flags for TLS,

Because there are no Fidonet mailers that support it? The normal sewquence of events is that the application comes first and then when it works, adding a flag to the nodelist is considered.

If you think TLS is a good idea, by all means add TLS to binkd. It is open source, so go ahead.

Tor hidden services (.onion) or i2p connections? ;) My FTN node at
home is only reachable over Tor, because I'm behind a carrier grade
NAT.

So how come? Are you on a mobile connection? TTBOMK, fixed ISPs in Germany do not put IPv4 only connections behind CGNAT yet. Fixed IP is DS-Lite when the IPv4 is CGNAT.

Anyway, you not having a public IPv4 address, should tell you something: that IPv4 is running out. An excellent reason to ask your ISP for IPv6. Or switch to
one that does already support it.

Connections over Tor are automatically encrypted

Binkd already has build in encryption...

and it doesn't matter if you connect over an IPv6 or IPv4 relay.

If you are behind CGNAT?

I don't think we should discriminate against any transport mechanisms
or strongly prefer one over the other. Whatever works.

I am not a member of the "more is better club". More mutually exclusive connection methods are detrimental to connectivity. As a point you are not part
of the Fidoweb, which did not exist in the nineties when you were a node. As a point you only need to connect to your Boss node. And outgoing only. So you may
not fully appriciate the value of universal connectivity...

Whatever... you have not answered my question: Hoe is your IPv6?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 10:25:21 +0100
"Michiel van der Vlist -> Oliver Thuns" <0@5555.280.2> wrote:

MvdV> Hello Oliver,

I'm still curious why do you think it is important that every
Fido node is reachable over IPv6?

MvdV> Did I say that?

They way you ask it feels a little bit like it should be everybodies duty to have IPv6 connectivity.

MvdV> Well whatever, I suggest you read my Fidonews
MvdV> articles about it. Hunt for "IPv6" in the Fidonews archive of the
MvdV> last decade. You will find about a dozen articles.

Any suggestions how to best find these articles in 520 zip files?
(last decade means 2000 to 2010?)

Tor hidden services (.onion) or i2p connections? ;) My FTN node
at home is only reachable over Tor, because I'm behind a
carrier grade NAT.

MvdV> So how come? Are you on a mobile connection? TTBOMK, fixed ISPs in
MvdV> Germany do not put IPv4 only connections behind CGNAT yet. Fixed IP
MvdV> is DS-Lite when the IPv4 is CGNAT.

My parents switched from Telekom (6 Mbit/s) to Innogy (50+ Mbit/s). The new one
uses an IP from the 100.64.0.0/64 range. First I didn't know that these are non-public IP addresses and wondered why port forwarding in the router didn't work.

MvdV> Anyway, you not having a public IPv4 address, should tell you
MvdV> something: that IPv4 is running out.

Yes, not enough IPv4 addresses for a new provider.

MvdV> An excellent reason to ask your
MvdV> ISP for IPv6. Or switch to one that does already support it.

Experiences shows that asking the customer support for IPv6 does not change anything. Switching the provider is often not an option or has other disadvantages.

Connections over Tor are automatically encrypted

MvdV> Binkd already has build in encryption...

Not really secure.

and it doesn't matter if you connect over an IPv6 or IPv4
relay.

MvdV> If you are behind CGNAT?

Yes, that works too.

I don't think we should discriminate against any transport
mechanisms or strongly prefer one over the other. Whatever
works.

MvdV> I am not a member of the "more is better club". More mutually
MvdV> exclusive connection methods are detrimental to connectivity.

I see your point, but why are the connection methods mutually exclusive?

MvdV> As a
MvdV> point you are not part of the Fidoweb, which did not exist in the
MvdV> nineties when you were a node. As a point you only need to connect to
MvdV> your Boss node. And outgoing only. So you may not fully appriciate
MvdV> the value of universal connectivity...

I think I do appreciate it. In my definition of "universal connectivity" a node
(or point) should be reachable everywhere even when it has no public IP, is behind a firewall, CGN, switching between networks, etc ... I think overlay networks like Tor or i2p are a good fit for Fidonet. Maybe IPv6 will solve all connectivity issues soon, but I wouldn't hold my breath ...

MvdV> Whatever... you have not answered my question: Hoe is your IPv6?

Could be better ...

---
* Origin: (2:280/464.47)

Hello Oliver,

On Tuesday November 19 2019 23:23, you wrote to me:

They way you ask it feels a little bit like it should be everybodies
duty to have IPv6 connectivity.

Let me put it this way:

It is my considered opinion that the ship of Fidonet is on collision course with an iceberg. There is no reason for panic, there is enough time for a change of course. But denial is not a good strategy at this point.

MvdV>> Well whatever, I suggest you read my Fidonews
MvdV>> articles about it. Hunt for "IPv6" in the Fidonews archive of
MvdV>> the last decade. You will find about a dozen articles.

Any suggestions how to best find these articles in 520 zip files?

(last decade means 2000 to 2010?)

You are not entirely new to Fidonet. You were nodelisted in 1994 or so. It should be just as easy or as hard for you as it is for me to find the articles.
So I will leave the exercise to you.

BTW, I meant 2010 - present.

I have been making it a habit to write a Fidonews article about the progress of
IPv6 in Fidonet at the end of the year. If I feel like it, I may add a list of refences to the articles to this end-of-year article. Or not...

Tor hidden services (.onion) or i2p connections? ;) My FTN node
at home is only reachable over Tor, because I'm behind a
carrier grade NAT.

MvdV>> So how come? Are you on a mobile connection? TTBOMK, fixed ISPs
MvdV>> in Germany do not put IPv4 only connections behind CGNAT yet.
MvdV>> Fixed IP is DS-Lite when the IPv4 is CGNAT.

My parents switched from Telekom (6 Mbit/s) to Innogy (50+ Mbit/s).
The new one uses an IP from the 100.64.0.0/64 range.

And no Ipv6? Then you are on a maimed internet connection.

100.64.0.0./10 is the range reserved for CGNAT. (RFC 2860).

First I didn't know that these are non-public IP addresses and
wondered why port forwarding in the router didn't work.

RFC 2860 adresses have been in use for quit some time. But this is the first time I hear of a fixed line ISP that uses them for their customers without also
offering IPv6. New information for my article... This may be acceptable for Joe
and Jane Average who just use the Internet to surf the web and read e-mail. But
CGNAT /without/ IPv6 - so no public IP address at all - breaks the principle of
end to end connectivity. It should be totally unacceptable to a Fidonet sysop as running a Fidonet node requires the ability to run a server.

You were nodelisted over 20 years ago, so you are no longer a teenager. I am not going to ask you why you depend on the Internet connection of your parents.

In the late seventees my life took a turn for the worse. I moved in with my parents for about a year. Fidonet did not exist yet, but modems were coming and
I was already experimenting with them. To not be dependant on my parents in everything, I made sure I had my own telephone line. Just saying...

MvdV>> Anyway, you not having a public IPv4 address, should tell you
MvdV>> something: that IPv4 is running out.

Yes, not enough IPv4 addresses for a new provider.

Indeed. The well of IPv4 has run dry. Most older ISPs still have some on the shelve, but new ISPs have to buy them at EUR 15 - EUR 20 each and that is too much of an ivestment for most. So they have to go CGNAT.

But... IPv6 addresses are free. New ISPs offering no IPv6 are doing something wrong. No way they would have me as a customer...

MvdV>> An excellent reason to ask your ISP for IPv6. Or switch to one that
MvdV>> does already support it.

Experiences shows that asking the customer support for IPv6 does not change anything.

You could at least give them the opportunity to explain why they do not offer IPv6 yet. Maybe they will tell you that they are working on it and it will be functional before the end of the year? Or perhaps they are extremely cheap?

I once dumped a DNS provider for not offering decent IPv6 support and not having a time table for implementation. I gave them ample time. I told them that if they hadn't fixed it in a year it would be goodby. They did nothing and
so goodby it was. Mind you that was ten years ago. I would not be so patient now.

Switching the provider is often not an option or has other
disadvantages.

I would never have made the switch from DTAG to Innogy in the first place...

Connections over Tor are automatically encrypted

MvdV>> Binkd already has build in encryption...

Not really secure.

It does not bother me.

However... for those interested in encryption:

1) Mandatory implementation of IPsec is part of the IPv6 specs. IPsec includes encryption pf the packet payload. So with IPv6 you can have encryption without messing with the implemantation layer.

2) In Fidonet I have used encryption on the message level. This I find much more useful than TLS or other session level encryption. Only end to end encryption on the message level protects against nosy sysops reading in transit
routed netmail.

http://www.vlist.eu/downloads/MVLIST.ASC

When Fidonet netmail still heavily depended on routing, there was a lot of resistance against routing encrypted mail. Hence the ENC flag. I have been carrying it from day one.

I don't think we should discriminate against any transport
mechanisms or strongly prefer one over the other. Whatever
works.

MvdV>> I am not a member of the "more is better club". More mutually
MvdV>> exclusive connection methods are detrimental to connectivity.

I see your point, but why are the connection methods mutually
exclusive?

I used the wrong term. I meant "mutally incompatible". My bad.

MvdV>> As a point you are not part of the Fidoweb, which did not exist in
MvdV>> the nineties when you were a node. As a point you only need to
MvdV>> connect to your Boss node. And outgoing only. So you may not fully
MvdV>> appriciate the value of universal connectivity...

I think I do appreciate it.

I think we do not mean the same by "universal connectivity".

My definition of "universal connectivity" is that every node can connect to every other node. That implies a common protocol for every sender-receiver pair.

In my definition of "universal connectivity" a node (or point) should
be reachable everywhere even when it has no public IP, is behind a firewall, CGN, switching between networks, etc ... I think overlay networks like Tor or i2p are a good fit for Fidonet.

I don't think connections over TOR or similar will ever become a wide spread method of connection in Fidonet. For a variety of reasons...

Maybe IPv6 will solve all connectivity issues soon,

What connectivity issues other than IPv4 address exhaustion?

but I wouldn't hold my breath ...

IPv6 /will/ solve the issues associated with the exhaustion of IPv4 adresses. It is already happening so you can keep breathing.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hello Terry,

On Thursday November 21 2019 16:32, you wrote to Tony Langdon:

While I have a fixed IPv4 it's enough for now, I have already a few
ideas for when I receive IPv6 and a block of IP's.

One of the nice things of IPv6 is that you do indeed get a block of addresses. And not just a handful but a VERY LARGE block. You will never be short of adresses.

You can give every device on your LAN its own address and run servers without having to mess with NAT and ports. It is one of those things you think you will
not need until you have it...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote:

MvdV> It is my considered opinion that the ship of Fidonet is on collision
MvdV> course with an iceberg. There is no reason for panic, there is enough
MvdV> time for a change of course. But denial is not a good strategy at
MvdV> this point.

And I thought Fidonet is already dead in the water ;).

Fidonet did run over POTS. Nodes will always find ways to connect, that's part of the hobby. I don't see any dangerous icebergs.

My parents switched from Telekom (6 Mbit/s) to Innogy (50+
Mbit/s). The new one uses an IP from the 100.64.0.0/64 range.

MvdV> And no Ipv6? Then you are on a maimed internet connection.

It should be illegal :).

First I didn't know that these are non-public IP addresses and
wondered why port forwarding in the router didn't work.

MvdV> You were nodelisted over 20 years ago, so you are no longer a
MvdV> teenager. I am not going to ask you why you depend on the Internet
MvdV> connection of your parents.

I don't and I can't, we live in different cities. I was visiting them and and had free time to install Fido software on my Raspberry Pi. It was just an example for a provider that neither offers proper IPv4 nor IPv6 connectivity (at the moment).

MvdV> In the late seventees my life took a turn for the worse. I moved in
MvdV> with my parents for about a year. Fidonet did not exist yet, but
MvdV> modems were coming and I was already experimenting with them. To not
MvdV> be dependant on my parents in everything, I made sure I had my own
MvdV> telephone line. Just saying...

Please don't jump to conclusions about others too fast. I will not tell much about my private life in Fidonet while the psychopaths lurking in the background.

MvdV> But... IPv6 addresses are free. New ISPs offering no IPv6 are doing
MvdV> something wrong.

True

MvdV>>> Binkd already has build in encryption...

Not really secure.

MvdV> It does not bother me.

MvdV> However... for those interested in encryption:

MvdV> 1) Mandatory implementation of IPsec is part of the IPv6 specs. IPsec
MvdV> includes encryption pf the packet payload. So with IPv6 you can have
MvdV> encryption without messing with the implemantation layer.

Nobody understands IPsec ;)

MvdV> 2) In Fidonet I have used encryption on the message level. This I
MvdV> find much more useful than TLS or other session level encryption.
MvdV> Only end to end encryption on the message level protects against nosy
MvdV> sysops reading in transit routed netmail.

You are right, we should not forget e2e message encryption, but it doesn't protect the metadata.

MvdV> When Fidonet netmail still heavily depended on routing, there was a
MvdV> lot of resistance against routing encrypted mail. Hence the ENC flag.
MvdV> I have been carrying it from day one.

+1

MvdV> My definition of "universal connectivity" is that every node can
MvdV> connect to every other node. That implies a common protocol for every
MvdV> sender-receiver pair.

I don't have any doubt that most nodes will connect over IPv6 in the future, but alternative transports were always part of Fidonet.

MvdV> I don't think connections over TOR or similar will ever become a wide
MvdV> spread method of connection in Fidonet. For a variety of reasons...

Most likely not in Fidonet, but maybe in some othernets. People are already using zerotier.

---
* Origin: (2:280/464.47)

Hi Michiel,

On Nov 23, 2019 02:32pm, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Terry Roati:

MvdV> One of the nice things of IPv6 is that you do indeed get a block of
MvdV> addresses. And not just a handful but a VERY LARGE block. You will
MvdV> never be short of adresses.

That's what I plan to make use of :)

MvdV> You can give every device on your LAN its own address and run servers
MvdV> without having to mess with NAT and ports. It is one of those things
MvdV> you think you will not need until you have it...

Yep I know that.

Just a suggestion why don't you make a IPv6 info or FAQ etc and ask Ward to post it Fidonet Org, I am sure it will be useful for many of us.

Thanks.

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

Hello Oliver,

On Saturday November 23 2019 21:08, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> It is my considered opinion that the ship of Fidonet is on
MvdV>> collision course with an iceberg. There is no reason for panic,
MvdV>> there is enough time for a change of course. But denial is not
MvdV>> a good strategy at this point.

And I thought Fidonet is already dead in the water ;).

It is the iceberg that is moving. ;-)

Fidonet did run over POTS. Nodes will always find ways to connect,
that's part of the hobby. I don't see any dangerous icebergs.

So you are in denial.

My parents switched from Telekom (6 Mbit/s) to Innogy (50+
Mbit/s). The new one uses an IP from the 100.64.0.0/64 range.

MvdV>> And no Ipv6? Then you are on a maimed internet connection.

It should be illegal :).

It should be non profitable, that is much more effective.

First I didn't know that these are non-public IP addresses and
wondered why port forwarding in the router didn't work.

MvdV>> You were nodelisted over 20 years ago, so you are no longer a
MvdV>> teenager. I am not going to ask you why you depend on the
MvdV>> Internet connection of your parents.

I don't and I can't, we live in different cities. I was visiting them
and and had free time to install Fido software on my Raspberry Pi. It
was just an example for a provider that neither offers proper IPv4
nor IPv6 connectivity (at the moment).

That is not how you presented it. You didn't say you were on visit there. You presented it as if it were your one and only Fdionet connection. I hate being put on the wrong foot by people who leave out essential information.

Please don't jump to conclusions about others too fast. I will not
tell much about my private life in Fidonet while the psychopaths
lurking in the background.

Thanks for the warning. From now on I will keep in mind that you tell only half
the story...

MvdV>> But... IPv6 addresses are free. New ISPs offering no IPv6 are
MvdV>> doing something wrong.

True

So we agree on that.

MvdV>>>> Binkd already has build in encryption...

Not really secure.

MvdV>> It does not bother me.

What are you trying to hide from whom?

MvdV>> However... for those interested in encryption:

MvdV>> 1) Mandatory implementation of IPsec is part of the IPv6 specs.
MvdV>> IPsec includes encryption pf the packet payload. So with IPv6
MvdV>> you can have encryption without messing with the implemantation
MvdV>> layer.

Nobody understands IPsec ;)

Good. Security by obscurity.

MvdV>> 2) In Fidonet I have used encryption on the message level. This
MvdV>> I find much more useful than TLS or other session level
MvdV>> encryption. Only end to end encryption on the message level
MvdV>> protects against nosy sysops reading in transit routed netmail.

You are right, we should not forget e2e message encryption, but it
doesn't protect the metadata.

Again: what are you trying to hide from whom? So far Fidonet has managed to remain below the radar of the ones that really bother me: State secuity agencies. The best strategy to remain below the radar is to not draw attention.
Using TOR will just draw the attention of those inteterested in people trying to hide something. There is no way to hide the origin of messages in Fidonet anyway.

MvdV>> When Fidonet netmail still heavily depended on routing, there
MvdV>> was a lot of resistance against routing encrypted mail. Hence
MvdV>> the ENC flag. I have been carrying it from day one.

+1

However now that crashing mail to the other side of the world is no longer cost
prohibitive, it is no longer all that important.

MvdV>> My definition of "universal connectivity" is that every node
MvdV>> can connect to every other node. That implies a common protocol
MvdV>> for every sender-receiver pair.

I don't have any doubt that most nodes will connect over IPv6 in the future, but alternative transports were always part of Fidonet.

And always were detrimental to connectivity.

MvdV>> I don't think connections over TOR or similar will ever become
MvdV>> a wide spread method of connection in Fidonet. For a variety of
MvdV>> reasons...

Most likely not in Fidonet, but maybe in some othernets. People are already using zerotier.

I am a member of Fidonet. Ik am not interested in othernets.

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hello Terry,

On Monday November 25 2019 22:01, you wrote to me:

Last I looked, there were a total of 81 IPv6 nodes in Fidonet, I would
say there a lot more than 200 Fidonet BBS still online.

Yes, but unlike the 81 that are published on my list, which everyone with an IPv6 connection can check for himself, your 200 is just a guess, not verifiable
fact.

MvdV>> Then just hope that when your provider makes the switch, you
MvdV>> won't sudddenly find your IPv4 behind CGNAT. Because then you
MvdV>> will be in the position of only discovering the roof is leaking
MvdV>> when the rain seison has started...

The way IPv6 is being progressed in Australia, I may be dead by then
and not need to worry about it :)

I didn't realise your remanning life expectancy is that short...

There are only 2 Australian nodes showing they have IPv6 (Native) at present, I really hope IPv6 progresses faster.

There are only 16 listed sysops in Australia. Not counting the Pvt node. Two out of sixteen is more than 10%. That's more than the global average for Fidonet.

As I have often mentioned in my end of year articles, there is very little correlation between the general IPv6 adoption in a country and the adoption in Fidonet. Several organisations keep track of IPv6 adaption per country. One of them is Akamai.

https://preview.tinyurl.com/rhv7bst

As you can see, general IPv6 adoption in Australia is 23.3%. In Fidonet Australia 12.5%. The Netherlands OTOH, 19.7% for the country as a whole, Fdionet 50%.
Belgium, General IPv6 adoption 50%, but only half an IPv6 node in Belgium.

Not much of a correlation between general IPv6 adpotion per country and IPv6 adoption in Fidonet.

Statistics on small numbers is tricky...

But IPv6 adoption is is picking up speed. If you scroll down on the Akamai page, you can see the list of countrie and if you click in the '>' in the circle on the right, you see a graph of the history for the country.

Australia is now 23.3%. But a year ago it was only 14%. And a month ago it was 17%. Ipv6 is growing fast in Australia!



Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hi Michiel,

On Nov 26, 2019 09:52am, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Terry Roati:

MvdV> Yes, but unlike the 81 that are published on my list, which everyone
MvdV> with an IPv6 connection can check for himself, your 200 is just a
MvdV> guess, not verifiable fact.

The INA flag in the nodelist will probably list hundreds but not all will
still be online. Another guide would be the telnet bbs guide which states: Added in the past 30 days: 37
TOTAL SYSTEMS LISTED : 514

MvdV> I didn't realise your remanning life expectancy is that short...

Only GOD knows that.

MvdV> https://preview.tinyurl.com/rhv7bst

Thanks, I will have a look at it.

MvdV> Not much of a correlation between general IPv6 adpotion per country
MvdV> and IPv6 adoption in Fidonet.

Adoption rates are poor all round, at some stage it will change, the sooner
the better.

MvdV> Statistics on small numbers is tricky...

Agree.

MvdV> Australia is now 23.3%. But a year ago it was only 14%. And a month
MvdV> ago it was 17%. Ipv6 is growing fast in Australia!

Good to know, the problem here is the providers are not talking about it.

I would hazard a guess and say most of the growth is due to 5G.

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

MvdV> I didn't realise your remanning life expectancy is that short...

Only GOD knows that.

She does ?

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

On Nov 26, 2019 01:14pm, Ward Dossche wrote to Terry Roati:

Only GOD knows that.

She does ?

Nah, the wife doesn't know either :)

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

Only GOD knows that.

She does ?

Nah, the wife doesn't know either :)

Wut? God is a woman married to another female ? :)

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hello Terry!

27 Nov 19 14:21, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

Only GOD knows that.

She does ?

Nah, the wife doesn't know either :)

The Wife knows everything and knows it before you recognize the existence of it. ;)

Beware of wives!!! :)

Ciao!
Fabio

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ]\/[imac Rebirth Boss Point (2:335/364.1)

Hello Ward!

27 Nov 19 07:57, you wrote to Terry Roati:

Nah, the wife doesn't know either :)

Wut? God is a woman married to another female ? :)

No, god is married with you... ;)

Ciao!
Fabio

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ]\/[imac Rebirth Boss Point (2:335/364.1)

Fabio,

The Wife knows everything and knows it before you recognize the existence of it. ;)

Beware of wives!!! :)

Are you talking about your spouse or your girlfriend? :-)

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hello Ward!

27 Nov 19 09:39, you wrote to me:

The Wife knows everything and knows it before you recognize the
existence of it. ;)

Beware of wives!!! :)

Are you talking about your spouse or your girlfriend? :-)

Despite my nationality I'm a faithful guy, I've only my wife in my heart and no
one else in my bed. :P

Ciao!
Fabio

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ]\/[imac Rebirth Boss Point (2:335/364.1)

On Nov 27, 2019 08:24am, Fabio Bizzi wrote to Terry Roati:

Hi Fabio,

The Wife knows everything and knows it before you recognize the
existence of it. ;)

Beware of wives!!! :)

Don't I know it.

BTW, Should be in Milan September next year, coffee time?



... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
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On Nov 27, 2019 07:57am, Ward Dossche wrote to Terry Roati:

Wut? God is a woman married to another female ? :)

As time passses, the more I learn I don't know :)

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

Hello Terry!

27 Nov 19 20:02, you wrote to me:

Beware of wives!!! :)

Don't I know it.

BTW, Should be in Milan September next year, coffee time?

I'm in Rome, come here, Milan is sad! ;)

Ciao!
Fabio

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ]\/[imac Rebirth Boss Point (2:335/364.1)

Fabio,

BTW, Should be in Milan September next year, coffee time?

I'm in Rome, come here, Milan is sad! ;)

They have "Romelu" Lukaku. This must hurt as a citizen of Rome ... :-)
""""""
\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

On Nov 27, 2019 02:06pm, Fabio Bizzi wrote to Terry Roati:

I'm in Rome, come here, Milan is sad! ;)

I will also be in Rome :)

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--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

Hello Terry!

28 Nov 19 14:23, you wrote to me:

I'm in Rome, come here, Milan is sad! ;)

I will also be in Rome :)

GREAT!!! I'll be happy to have a coffee with you, let me know when. ;)

Ciao!
Fabio

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ]\/[imac Rebirth Boss Point (2:335/364.1)

Hi! Fabio,

On 11/28/2019 06:05 PM, you wrote to Terry Roati:

I will also be in Rome :)

GREAT!!! I'll be happy to have a coffee with you, let me know when. ;)

When you find out let us all know. We others can have a coffee at the same time, even if we can't be there with you both. :)

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
* Origin: Red-shifted: The only way to travel... (3:640/1384.125)

On Nov 28, 2019 09:04am, Fabio Bizzi wrote to Terry Roati:

GREAT!!! I'll be happy to have a coffee with you, let me know when. ;)

Trip is in the planning stages, it should be September next year when it is not so hot.

Terry

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

On Nov 28, 2019 06:25pm, Paul Quinn wrote to Fabio Bizzi:

When you find out let us all know. We others can have a coffee at the same time, even if we can't be there with you both. :)

Will do :)

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

I'm in Rome, come here, Milan is sad! ;)

I will also be in Rome :)

GREAT!!! I'll be happy to have a coffee with you, let me know when. ;)

Ryanair flies to Rome from here ....

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hi! Terry,

On 28 Nov 19 20:30, you wrote to me:

On Nov 28, 2019 06:25pm, Paul Quinn wrote to Fabio Bizzi:

When you find out let us all know. We others can have a coffee
at the same time, even if we can't be there with you both. :)

Will do :)

And stay out of the bloody fountain (big one, near the Spanish steps). Apparently it got polluted by a bunch of Aussies playing submarines & battleships, and the city council is still icky about tourists. Be good.

Cheers,
Paul.

... Monty Python's The Life of Brian: Makes Ben-Hur look like an epic.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
* Origin: Quinn's Rock - Live from Paul's Xubuntu desktop! (3:640/1384)

On Nov 28, 2019 01:11pm, Ward Dossche wrote to Fabio Bizzi:

Ryanair flies to Rome from here ....

The more the merrier :)

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--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

Hello Ward!

28 Nov 19 13:11, you wrote to me:

I'm in Rome, come here, Milan is sad! ;)

I will also be in Rome :)

GREAT!!! I'll be happy to have a coffee with you, let me know
when. ;)

Ryanair flies to Rome from here ....

WoW, it would be wonderful!!!! :)

Ciao!
Fabio

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ]\/[imac Rebirth Boss Point (2:335/364.1)

On 28/11/2019 22:11, Ward Dossche -> Fabio Bizzi wrote:

I will also be in Rome :)

GREAT!!! I'll be happy to have a coffee with you, let me know when. ;)

Ryanair flies to Rome from here ....

Is that the mob that does "Cheap flights for 50p"?

--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Evans Head, NSW (3:640/305)

I will also be in Rome :)

GREAT!!! I'll be happy to have a coffee with you, let me know when.

;)

Ryanair flies to Rome from here ....

Is that the mob that does "Cheap flights for 50p"?

You need to differentiate between "cheep" and "inexpensive".

But basically they offer the best fares and 100% no frills. Whatever you want, it's extra. Using the toilet is still free but they're thinking of making them coin-operated.

They catch a lot of flak, mostly from ignoramusses that never travel and whose unique flying experience is Ryanair ... they operate 475 Boeing-737/800s, the 2nd largest 737-fleet worldwide ... that's not a small company.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hello Ward,

Only GOD knows that.

She does ?

Nah, the wife doesn't know either :)

Wut? God is a woman married to another female ? :)

Judas Iscariot kissed Jesus *on* the lips.

That proves He really is a She.

She also was known to hang out with Mary Magdalene ...

--Lee

--
Everybody Loves Our Buns

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Terry,

Wut? God is a woman married to another female ? :)

As time passses, the more I learn I don't know :)

S/he is a true hermaphrodite.

I have personally met two true hermaphrodites (that I know of).

One has three children, being the mother of three and the father
of one. I met her in a trailer park down the bayou, helping her
move. She had recently gotten divorced, her husband claiming she
had not been faithful. She got herself pregnant with her third
child as her husband was working offshore, and that was just too
much for him to handle.

The other true hermaphrodite was a 14-year-old kid in the
Philippines. The other kids in the classroom vouched s/he
had both parts making him/her both male and female. I took
their word for it, as kids never lie about things like that.

A few years later, when s/he reached age 21, s/he wanted
to get married to a fellow in the Navy, as s/he was pregnant.
But the Philippine government would not allow her to get
married because s/he was male according to his/her birth
certificate.

That would make her the world's first pregnant man.
Interviewed live on television, by NBC News, in 1991.

--Lee

--
Get Her Wet Here

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On Nov 28, 2019 10:07pm, Paul Quinn wrote to Terry Roati:

And stay out of the bloody fountain (big one, near the Spanish steps). Apparently it got polluted by a bunch of Aussies playing submarines & battleships, and the city council is still icky about tourists. Be
good.

She who must be obeyed will be with me so no choice :)

Aussies, you can't bring them anywhere in groups :)

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

On Nov 29, 2019 08:25am, David Drummond wrote to Ward Dossche:

Is that the mob that does "Cheap flights for 50p"?

Only if you have luggage, luggage costs 50 quid :)

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

Is that the mob that does "Cheap flights for 50p"?

Only if you have luggage, luggage costs 50 quid :)

Why the need for luggage? 12kg in the overhead is a lot. And these days people truck so much in the cabin that there's regularly the option to check it into the hold of the aircraft at the gate ... at no cost.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

On Nov 29, 2019 08:59am, Ward Dossche wrote to Terry Roati:

Why the need for luggage? 12kg in the overhead is a lot. And these days people truck so much in the cabin that there's regularly the option to check it into the hold of the aircraft at the gate ... at no cost.

You haven't travelled with my wife :)

In Oz the free cabbin luggage limit is 7 kg, $19 will get you another 7 kg
with the cheapie airlines, check in luggage is extra. I guess it helps with their quick turn arounds to get more flights out of one aircraft.


... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

In Oz the free cabbin luggage limit is 7 kg, $19 will get you another 7
kg with the cheapie airlines, check in luggage is extra. I guess it helps with their quick turn arounds to get more flights out of one aircraft.

That is correct. An airplane on the ground does not make money.

I think a next step is going to be weighing the passengers and determine a weight-index to be added to the ticket.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

On 29/11/2019 21:01, Ward Dossche -> Terry Roati wrote:

I guess it helps with their quick turn arounds to get more flights out of

one aircraft.

That is correct. An airplane on the ground does not make money.

I think a next step is going to be weighing the passengers and determine
a weight-index to be added to the ticket.

Does that mean you'll have to pay double?

--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Evans Head, NSW (3:640/305)

I think a next step is going to be weighing the passengers and
determine a weight-index to be added to the ticket.

Does that mean you'll have to pay double?

Or it could be an incentive to start a diet ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

On Dec 01, 2019 11:16pm, Ward Dossche wrote to David Drummond:

Or it could be an incentive to start a diet ...

Worked for cigarettes.

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* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:640/1321) (3:640/1321)

Ward Dossche wrote to David Drummond <=-

I think a next step is going to be weighing the passengers and
determine a weight-index to be added to the ticket.

Does that mean you'll have to pay double?

Or it could be an incentive to start a diet ...

Or drive, take a ship, train, etc. More fun that way.



... Ham radio operators do it with frequency!
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: US 99 BBS | Visalia, CA | bbs.quinnnet.org (1:214/22)

Or it could be an incentive to start a diet ...

Or drive, take a ship, train, etc. More fun that way.

Due to extreme congestion, driving is not really a fun thing here anymore.

But trains are OK.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hello Michiel,

MvdV>>> It is my considered opinion that the ship of Fidonet is on
MvdV>>> collision course with an iceberg. There is no reason for panic,
MvdV>>> there is enough time for a change of course. But denial is not
MvdV>>> a good strategy at this point.

And I thought Fidonet is already dead in the water ;).

MvdV> It is the iceberg that is moving. ;-)

How long does it take for an iceberg to melt?

Fidonet did run over POTS. Nodes will always find ways to connect,
that's part of the hobby. I don't see any dangerous icebergs.

MvdV> So you are in denial.

Not me. Sprechen sie deutsch?

https://www.ipv6-handbuch.de/

My parents switched from Telekom (6 Mbit/s) to Innogy (50+
Mbit/s). The new one uses an IP from the 100.64.0.0/64 range.

MvdV>>> And no Ipv6? Then you are on a maimed internet connection.

It should be illegal :).

MvdV> It should be non profitable, that is much more effective.

Everything ought to be free. That way, we can all profit from
what others have done.

Look at it this way. If you want to make money, you have to spend
money. Preferable somebody else's money. See how that works?

That way, we all benefit from each other. And everybody is happy.

--Lee

--
It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)