The Czech Republic has banned me and Bj�rn from travelling
to their country.
The Czech Republic has banned me and Bj�rn from travelling
to their country.
No worries, mate. Us Swedes are banned from a lot of countries, even our neighbouring. Countries that do not understand that eventually they will have surpassed the Swedish death toll.
Heil to the Bunker Boy and his theories!
Meaning I could wind up
getting stranded away from home, never being able to return.
Or stranded where I am and not being able to go anywhere.
Meaning I could wind up
getting stranded away from home, never being able to return.
Or stranded where I am and not being able to go anywhere.
But surely only for 14 days, no?
But surely only for 14 days, no?
The governor keeps extending it - by 28 days.
At least he has a bunker to go to. For now.
But surely only for 14 days, no?
The governor keeps extending it - by 28 days.
Ah yes, of course. The US politicians are not particularly in par with your
scientists?
Bj�rn Felten wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-
At least he has a bunker to go to. For now.
Yes. And he's got a lot of military hardware to protect him
This is one of the longer conversations you've had with yourself.
What makes you think either one of you knows anything about USA
life / politics? Why are you so obsessed with a topic on a
country that you don't even live in?
No worries, mate. Us Swedes are banned from a lot of countries, even
our neighbouring. Countries that do not understand that eventually they will have surpassed the Swedish death toll.
Free clue: What the media feeds you is not accurate.
The Czech Republic has banned me and Bj�rn from travelling
to their country. Along with folks from Portugal and part of
Poland. All due to COVID-19. We are just too sick to travel,
and nobody wants to pick up the Czech.
This is one of the longer conversations you've had with yourself.
You *do* know, that almost all of us understand that you are a Trumpster, don't you?
Nobody with an above 70 IQ could pursue such a stupid conspiracy theory like
yours here -- ergo, you're a Trumpster, yes?
Bj*rn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-
This is one of the longer conversations you've had with yourself.
Nobody with an above 70 IQ could pursue such a stupid
conspiracy theory like yours here -- ergo, you're a Trumpster,
yes?
Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-
What makes you think either one of you knows anything about USA
life / politics? Why are you so obsessed with a topic on a
country that you don't even live in?
Because that pathetic alcoholic crybaby widower needs to keep
running the "stupid American" gimmick to feel some sort of
relevance here, until he ultimately makes his grand departure
(taking Lee with him).
If he didn't have the gimmick, he'd just have Abba.
Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Free clue: What the media feeds you is not accurate.
What? It's even worse than that ?
"media-sponsored liberal-agenda propaganda"
Careful. He/she could be a Trumpette.
mark lewis wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Re: Re: The US economy
By: Dan Clough to Ward Dossche on Mon Jun 29 2020 08:16:00
"media-sponsored liberal-agenda propaganda"
is that better, worse, or the same as "media-sponsored
conservative-agenda propganda"? ;)
Careful. He/she could be a Trumpette.
Doubtful. Trump seems to appeal mainly to middle aged white male with a below college education.
No wonder the man has taken to Twitter. Seems to me to be his
only friend. And I am not sure how long that friend will remain
his friend.
No wonder the man has taken to Twitter. Seems to me to be his
only friend. And I am not sure how long that friend will remain
his friend.
The major question the outside world (not dominated by the US media conglomerate) is asking is: how in heavens name can a country as big as the
USA so easily be conquered by Russia?
How can it be so easy to install an imbecile as POTUS, an idiot that time and time again tell the world how much he loves Putin and hates US intelligence. An imbecile that can't even read English, so he has to get his daily briefings in comic book style.
This is really an interesting -- but unfortunately extremely scary -- reality show. :(
Is that scary enough for you?
Is that scary enough for you?
You have such a nice way to explain things, thank you muchly.
Now all I'd like to know is how long your Feds can manage to prop up the stock exchange before it all collapses.
After all, there must be a limit even of how much money they can print?
Now all I'd like to know is how long your Feds can manage to prop up the
stock exchange before it all collapses.
Junk bonds. The Federal Reserve is buying junk bonds and corporate
debt ETFs in order to revive the American economy. That is what it
has been doing since the pandemic began.
After all, there must be a limit even of how much money they can print?
Fiat money. Scrip. Not real currency at all.
Just you wait until the Federal Reserve starts buying US stocks.
Then you will see elephants fly.
Looks like a groundless hysteric.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTMzK306-j4
I know all there is to know about fiat money. I have a university
degree to show for it. I also know that there's a limit to how many
trillions (US -- not metric) of dollars the FED can print and get away
with it.
the stock exchange before it all collapses.Now all I'd like to know is how long your Feds can manage to prop BF>>up
Junk bonds. The Federal Reserve is buying junk bonds and corporate
debt ETFs in order to revive the American economy. That is what it
has been doing since the pandemic began.
Well, not entirely true. The FED is buying stocks in major US corporations that are going down.
The US tax-payers are FED-prepping up the stock so that the share holders will get what they think they own -- and FO the rest of the ordinary citizens.
After all, there must be a limit even of how much money they canprint?
Fiat money. Scrip. Not real currency at all.
I know all there is to know about fiat money. I have a university degree to
show for it.
I also know that there's a limit to how many trillions (US -- not metric) of
dollars the FED can print and get away with it.
Hello! Do you think that we are stupid out here?
Or maybe you know that we have a few Nobel Prise winners of our own?
Just you wait until the Federal Reserve starts buying US stocks.
Then you will see elephants fly.
Are you kidding me?
The Feds have done nothing but flooding US taxpayer's "money" (we'll talk more about that word later on in this channel) for more than 20 years!!!
Yikes! Are the US people the last ones to actually realize what is happening
here?
They didn't even know what the Chinese or the Russians knew about it?
WOW!!! What *is* actually the average IQ of a US citizen?
[...]
I know all there is to know about fiat money. I have a university
degree to show for it. I also know that there's a limit to how many
trillions (US -- not metric) of dollars the FED can print and get away
with it.
Great to know! I will probably have a lot of question. If I may start with one, where can we find out when money is printed and how much?
(This must be public information, I suppose.) Does the question make sense? Thank you!
Looks like a groundless hysteric.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTMzK306-j4
I think you have to explain that. The subtitles didn't work.
If I may start
with one, where can we find out when money is printed and how much?
Well, not entirely true. The FED is buying stocks in major US corporations
that are going down.
The 1913 Federal Reserve Act (created the central bank) prohibits
it from buying stocks or corporate assets.
In March, the Fed set up the special purpose vehicle (SPV) to get
around the provision against buying corporate assets. This SPV is
funded by the US Treasury, and managed by BlackRock (BLK). This
is not quite the same thing as buying stocks, but the same basic
idea. Just on a smaller scale.
So do I. Now planning my next step. Becoming a published author.
Will you beat me to it? Better hurry, the window is closing fast.
I also know that there's a limit to how many trillions (US -- not
metric) of dollars the FED can print and get away with it.
Not if the next step is going cashless. Which is becoming a very
real possibility, given the coronavirus pandemic.
Hello! Do you think that we are stupid out here?
US President Donald J. Trump does.
Or maybe you know that we have a few Nobel Prise winners of our own?
Donald J. Trump would win the one for Economics for sure if the
Nobel Committee had any sense.
The Fed does not have the legal authority to buy stocks (playing
in the stock market) due to provisions in the 1913 Federal Reserve
Act. But as I mentioned earlier, there are ways around that.
The Feds have done nothing but flooding US taxpayer's "money" (we'll talk
more about that word later on in this channel) for more than 20 years!!!
Yeah, we know. We know. And nothing really changes. As if talking
about it would ever make a difference.
WOW!!! What *is* actually the average IQ of a US citizen?
Sorry. I can't count that low.
Looks like a groundless hysteric.I think you have to explain that. The subtitles didn't work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTMzK306-j4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTMzK306-j4
I think you have to explain that. The subtitles didn't work.
The translation is not necessary. I was joking about your desperate
words that the USA was conquered by Russia. ;-)
Hello Wayne,
[...]
I know all there is to know about fiat money. I have a university
degree to show for it. I also know that there's a limit to how many
trillions (US -- not metric) of dollars the FED can print and get away
with it.
Great to know! I will probably have a lot of question. If I may start with one, where can we find out when money is printed and how much? (This must be public information, I suppose.) Does the question make sense? Thank you!
Jekyll Island. Meet the Creature. Learn everything you have always
wanted to know ...
If I may start with one, where can we find out when money is
printed and how much?
That's an easy one. It's your central bank that "prints" your
money.
The US however does not have a real central bank, they have a
regular, private bank called the Federal Reserve, and that is a really interesting story, that will not fit into a regular Fidonet
message. Google for "Federal Reserve Act" to find out more.
Not even the US citizens (save for perhaps a few percent) know
about this incredible institution that has such enormous impact on
their economy:
"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our
banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be
a revolution before tomorrow morning."
-- not Henry Ford 8-)
But all fiat money is still just virtual, weather printed on (toilet?) paper or ending up as a number in a computer data base.
Not even the US citizens (save for perhaps a few percent) know
about this incredible institution that has such enormous impact on
their economy:
"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our
banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be
a revolution before tomorrow morning."
-- not Henry Ford 8-)
In that case, I will also read
How Internationalists Gain Power
Russell Maguire
https://www.unz.com/print/AmMercury-1957oct-00079/?View=PDF
to see if I can get the context.
-- not Henry Ford 8-)
The Henry Ford quote doesn't come with
evidence that Henry Ford actually said that.
Not very interesting text. I was expecting a lecture, but it was
someone stating an opinion. The Henry Ford quote doesn't come with evidence that Henry Ford actually said that. Quick read, though.
-- not Henry Ford 8-)
The Henry Ford quote doesn't come with
evidence that Henry Ford actually said that.
I obviously am better educated than you'd expect from stupid Swede? Please notice the *not* before his name. In other words, do you really think that I thought he said it...?
I obviously am better educated than you'd expect from stupid Swede? Please
notice the *not* before his name. In other words, do you really think that
I thought he said it...?
The quote has often been attributed to him. Mostly by right-wing conspiracy theory nuts. But when one looks at what Henry Ford really wrote, he never wrote or said what so many have been told.
Lee Lofaso wrote to Wayne Harris <=-
Time for you to meet the Creature from Jekyll Island.
By G. Edward Griffin. It is quite a tome, but well worth
the read. Happy Hunting.
Time for you to meet the Creature from Jekyll Island.
By G. Edward Griffin. It is quite a tome, but well worth
the read. Happy Hunting.
Wow. GEG's wikipedia page is the most severe hatchet job I've read in
a long time. Time for some balanced editing.
But surely only for 14 days, no?
The governor keeps extending it - by 28 days.
Ah yes, of course. The US politicians are not particularly in par with your scientists?
At least he has a bunker to go to. For now.
Yes. And he's got a lot of military hardware to protect him there
down in the bunker that he only visits for inspection?
But how does he explain how the US people, who now is indebted at
$80k each -- babies all the way to 100yo alike? How many years will it
take for USA to repay such a humongous debt?
Lee Lofaso - Wayne Harris <0@2.203.2> writes:
Hello Wayne,
[...]
I know all there is to know about fiat money. I have a university
degree to show for it. I also know that there's a limit to how many
trillions (US -- not metric) of dollars the FED can print and get away >> >> with it.
Great to know! I will probably have a lot of question. If I may start >> WH> with one, where can we find out when money is printed and how much?
(This must be public information, I suppose.) Does the question make >> WH> sense? Thank you!
Jekyll Island. Meet the Creature. Learn everything you have always
wanted to know ...
But surely only for 14 days, no?
The governor keeps extending it - by 28 days.
Ah yes, of course. The US politicians are not particularly in par
with your scientists?
Are scientists in par with the facts? :-)
At least he has a bunker to go to. For now.
Yes. And he's got a lot of military hardware to protect him there
down in the bunker that he only visits for inspection?
But how does he explain how the US people, who now is indebted at
$80k each -- babies all the way to 100yo alike? How many years will it
take for USA to repay such a humongous debt?
Are you talking about the US public debt of 21 trillion?
[...]
awayI know all there is to know about fiat money. I have a university
degree to show for it. I also know that there's a limit to how many
trillions (US -- not metric) of dollars the FED can print and get
with it.
Great to know! I will probably have a lot of question. If I may
start
with one, where can we find out when money is printed and how much?
(This must be public information, I suppose.) Does the question
make
sense? Thank you!
Jekyll Island. Meet the Creature. Learn everything you have always
wanted to know ...
Thank you for the recommendation. I completely read part I and II and continue the reading, but I think I can open some tangents on my reading to ask some clarification and do some verifications.
On page 192 of the 5th edition, George Edward Griffin begins to describe the ``Mandrake Mechanism''. I was warned that the process might not
make much sense, but I'm not trying to find any sense in this. My interest in only in clarity.
``First, the Fed takes all the government bonds which the public does
not buy and writes a check to Congress in exchange for them. (It
acquires other debt obligations as well, but government bonds comprise
most of its inventory.)''
Let me take each step carefully. The government issues bonds. Some people buy it. Some bonds are not bought. How does Congress get
involved in this? Is it the case that Congress buys all those people
did not buy? With what money does Congress buy? Is Griffin saying that the Fed itself ``writes a check to Congress'' so that Congress can
afford it?
Let me begin with these questions only. Thank you.
On page 192 of the 5th edition, George Edward Griffin begins to describe the ``Mandrake Mechanism''. I was warned that the process might not make much sense, but I'm not trying to find any sense in this. My interest in only in clarity.
``First, the Fed takes all the government bonds which the public does
not buy and writes a check to Congress in exchange for them. (It
acquires other debt obligations as well, but government bonds comprise
most of its inventory.)''
Let me take each step carefully. The government issues bonds. Some people buy it. Some bonds are not bought. How does Congress get involved in this? Is it the case that Congress buys all those people did not buy? With what money does Congress buy? Is Griffin saying that the Fed itself ``writes a check to Congress'' so that Congress can afford it?
Let me begin with these questions only. Thank you.
The Congress does not spend money. It merely appropreates funds.
That is what most folks fail to realize, or simply do not understand.
Bankers understand the process, and how to make money work for them.
You see, money is nothing more than a medium of exchange. And as you
know, no real money ever passes hands in Congress.
In fact, we could become a third world
country within a relatively short period of time.
Let me begin with these questions only. Thank you.
The Congress does not spend money. It merely appropreates funds.
That is what most folks fail to realize, or simply do not understand.
Bankers understand the process, and how to make money work for them.
You see, money is nothing more than a medium of exchange. And as you
know, no real money ever passes hands in Congress.
I think you answer the questions above, but not in an explicit way as I need to. I'm slow. I need more explicit help. You might be saying the Fed provides Congress with the money for buying out the bonds the people did not buy, but it's not clear. If you're saying that, I'd need you to say it explicitly and hopefully with a pointer of the accounting events that would show it.
In fact, we could become a third world
country within a relatively short period of time.
Yeah, well, it is what it is.
-- New MAGA hat text?
Hello Wayne,
[..]
Let me begin with these questions only. Thank you.
The Congress does not spend money. It merely appropreates funds.
That is what most folks fail to realize, or simply do not understand.
Bankers understand the process, and how to make money work for them.
You see, money is nothing more than a medium of exchange. And as you
know, no real money ever passes hands in Congress.
I think you answer the questions above, but not in an explicit way as I need to. I'm slow. I need more explicit help. You might be saying the Fed provides Congress with the money for buying out the bonds the people did not buy, but it's not clear. If you're saying that, I'd need you to say it explicitly and hopefully with a pointer of the accounting events that would show it.
Griffin does not have a very good grasp on how things work.
The Congress does not spend money. It appropriates funds. The
Department of the Treasury is part of the Executive Branch, not the Legislative Branch. How can the Department of the Treasury sell what
it cannot own?
It's kinda like robbing Peter to pay Paul. There has to be a victim,
even if that victim never realizes he/she is the victim.
Paper bills and coins made of metal have no real value. People are
able to spend it as "legal tender" only because government endorsed
it. Otherwise, those paper bills and coins made of metal would be
just as worthless.
IOW, people spend it because they believe it has value. If they did
not believe it had value, it would be used for something else.
Some people like to save it rather than spend it. But what they
are actually doing is allow other people to spend it since they are
not spending it themselves.
See how that works? Are you catching on yet?
What Griffin calls the "Mandrake Mechanism" is his way of trying
to put the blame on inflation as being the root cause of all evil.
But if you take the time to analyze what is really happening, you
will find deflation to be far more destructive than inflation.
If you want to make money you have to spend money. Preferably
other people's money. Saving money is losing money, since all money
loses value over time. And you are talking about paper bills, which
have no value to begin with.
Austerity has never worked in the past. It will not work now.
And it will never work in the future. What happens, is people just
wait. And wait. And wait. For prices to drop. And drop. And drop.
That is no way to build an economy.
The idea of fiat money, or scrip, is nothing new. People place
value on objects of their own choice, or what the leaders of their
tribe have dictated. Even primitive societies use fiat money.
We could just as well be using snake oil. The people of Yap use
giant round stones as their currency. They haul these giant stones
from island to island, hoping their canoe does not sink along the
way.
How much gold is stored at Ft. Knox? Or at any vault in the US?
If Germany requested the US to return its stash of gold being held
in US vaults, would the US comply? I doubt it.
Suppose the US no longer has the gold it was storing for Germany.
What would happen to whatever investments the US has in Germany?
If I was holding your gold, and you wanted it back, and I couldn't
find it, you would not be a happy camper.
Back to the original question.
How can the Fed give money to the Congress when the Fed has no
money of its own?
The Fed can print money. Or what it calls money. As much, or as
little, as it wants. It can raise interest rates. It can lower interest rates. It can do lots of other things. It can create, and control, what
is commonly called "money". But what happens when all the money that
is printed gets out of control?
We know what happened in Germany. People had so much money they did
not what to do with it. Then came Hitler, who gave Germans everything
he promised, and more.
We also know what happeed in the USA. People had no money, and did
not know what to do. Then came FDR, who gave Americans everything he promised, and more.
Yep. If you want to make money, gotta spend money, preferably other
people's money. Kinda like robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Griffin does not have a very good grasp on how things work.
It was you who recommended me the book. :-)
The Congress does not spend money. It appropriates funds. The
Department of the Treasury is part of the Executive Branch, not the
Legislative Branch. How can the Department of the Treasury sell what
it cannot own?
It's kinda like robbing Peter to pay Paul. There has to be a victim,
even if that victim never realizes he/she is the victim.
Paper bills and coins made of metal have no real value. People are
able to spend it as "legal tender" only because government endorsed
it. Otherwise, those paper bills and coins made of metal would be
just as worthless.
IOW, people spend it because they believe it has value. If they did
not believe it had value, it would be used for something else.
Some people like to save it rather than spend it. But what they
are actually doing is allow other people to spend it since they are
not spending it themselves.
See how that works? Are you catching on yet?
What Griffin calls the "Mandrake Mechanism" is his way of trying
to put the blame on inflation as being the root cause of all evil.
But if you take the time to analyze what is really happening, you
will find deflation to be far more destructive than inflation.
If you want to make money you have to spend money. Preferably
other people's money. Saving money is losing money, since all money
loses value over time. And you are talking about paper bills, which
have no value to begin with.
Austerity has never worked in the past. It will not work now.
And it will never work in the future. What happens, is people just
wait. And wait. And wait. For prices to drop. And drop. And drop.
That is no way to build an economy.
The idea of fiat money, or scrip, is nothing new. People place
value on objects of their own choice, or what the leaders of their
tribe have dictated. Even primitive societies use fiat money.
We could just as well be using snake oil. The people of Yap use
giant round stones as their currency. They haul these giant stones
from island to island, hoping their canoe does not sink along the
way.
How much gold is stored at Ft. Knox? Or at any vault in the US?
If Germany requested the US to return its stash of gold being held
in US vaults, would the US comply? I doubt it.
Suppose the US no longer has the gold it was storing for Germany.
What would happen to whatever investments the US has in Germany?
If I was holding your gold, and you wanted it back, and I couldn't
find it, you would not be a happy camper.
Back to the original question.
How can the Fed give money to the Congress when the Fed has no
money of its own?
The Fed can print money. Or what it calls money. As much, or as
little, as it wants. It can raise interest rates. It can lower interest
rates. It can do lots of other things. It can create, and control, what
is commonly called "money". But what happens when all the money that
is printed gets out of control?
We know what happened in Germany. People had so much money they did
not what to do with it. Then came Hitler, who gave Germans everything
he promised, and more.
We also know what happeed in the USA. People had no money, and did
not know what to do. Then came FDR, who gave Americans everything he
promised, and more.
Yep. If you want to make money, gotta spend money, preferably other
people's money. Kinda like robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I appreciate your attention. You're not answering the question, but I take responsibility for it. I didn't express myself well. The question has been snipped, so I'll have to recover it.
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
On page 192 of the 5th edition, George Edward Griffin begins to describe
the ``Mandrake Mechanism''. I was warned that the process might not
make much sense, but I'm not trying to find any sense in this. My
interest in only in clarity.
``First, the Fed takes all the government bonds which the public does
not buy and writes a check to Congress in exchange for them. (It
acquires other debt obligations as well, but government bonds comprise
most of its inventory.)''
Let me take each step carefully. The government issues bonds. Some
people buy it. Some bonds are not bought. How does Congress get
involved in this? Is it the case that Congress buys all those people
did not buy? With what money does Congress buy? Is Griffin saying that
the Fed itself ``writes a check to Congress'' so that Congress can
afford it?
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
As I tried to convey above, I'm interested in understanding each step of the process with a maximum of clarity.
Child A slapped child B in school and there is no question as to the
fact --- it's been filmed by a security camera and many people have already seen it. Parents are making a whole fuss about it. A meeting
has been scheduled. Some claim it was an act of evil and others said
it's just normal children stuff. These are all profound questions. All I'm asking is to see the video: it must show the fact and I haven't seen it yet.
My own attempt at answering the question might clarify, but it won't be
as clear as I would like it to be, so please rewrite it or fill it in as you can.
Governments eventually find themselves having spent all the resources
they had. More resources are coming all the time through the revenue service, so when pockets are empty they could first check with the Department of Treasury whether they've earned some more in the meantime. Suppose the answer is no: the government has spent it all from their ``last paycheck''. They'll need a plan B.
As a plan B, the government decides to sell bonds. Some people buy it because it's considered by many a very good investment, after all it's
the treasury promising to pay it back with an interest. However, after selling all securities people were willing to buy, they still didn't
raise all they needed, so they need a plan C.
As a plan C, the Treasury approaches the Federal Reserve to provide the resources they couldn't raise by themselves. The Federal Reserve
provides the Treasury with _something_ that allows the Treasury to let government start spending, which they do. From here on money starting flowing hand in hand as payments are made and banks go on lending it to whoever borrows and earning interests over their ``excess reserves'' --- for sure the best business model there is.
So, when Griffin says ``the Fed takes all the government bonds which the public does not buy and writes a check to Congress in exchange for
them'', perhaps he means that the Federal Reserve buys all bonds the public did not buy, letting the Treasury raise the resources they wanted to, but couldn't do it themselves alone (because people just didn't buy
it all.)
It should be clear now that I'm interested in the process. I may not
know whether we are counting cats or dogs, but I should be able to see
the arithmetic in clear steps. If I've counted 3 things already in day
1 and then I count 4 more things in day 2, then putting these two days together, I've counted 3 + 4 = 7, which I verify by looking up my
addition table, which is something I assume to be correct.
Thank you!
Griffin does not have a very good grasp on how things work.
It was you who recommended me the book. :-)
Hello Wayne,
[..]
Griffin does not have a very good grasp on how things work.
It was you who recommended me the book. :-)
Highly. Very highly. It is the best. The very best. And I am not
the only one who recommends reading this book. It is a true classic,
and is extremely popular among many, including some US Senators.
https://tinyurl.com/st3feq3
The Congress does not spend money. It appropriates funds. The
Department of the Treasury is part of the Executive Branch, not the
Legislative Branch. How can the Department of the Treasury sell what
it cannot own?
It's kinda like robbing Peter to pay Paul. There has to be a victim,
even if that victim never realizes he/she is the victim.
Paper bills and coins made of metal have no real value. People are
able to spend it as "legal tender" only because government endorsed
it. Otherwise, those paper bills and coins made of metal would be
just as worthless.
IOW, people spend it because they believe it has value. If they did
not believe it had value, it would be used for something else.
Some people like to save it rather than spend it. But what they
are actually doing is allow other people to spend it since they are
not spending it themselves.
See how that works? Are you catching on yet?
What Griffin calls the "Mandrake Mechanism" is his way of trying
to put the blame on inflation as being the root cause of all evil.
But if you take the time to analyze what is really happening, you
will find deflation to be far more destructive than inflation.
If you want to make money you have to spend money. Preferably
other people's money. Saving money is losing money, since all money
loses value over time. And you are talking about paper bills, which
have no value to begin with.
Austerity has never worked in the past. It will not work now.
And it will never work in the future. What happens, is people just
wait. And wait. And wait. For prices to drop. And drop. And drop.
That is no way to build an economy.
The idea of fiat money, or scrip, is nothing new. People place
value on objects of their own choice, or what the leaders of their
tribe have dictated. Even primitive societies use fiat money.
We could just as well be using snake oil. The people of Yap use
giant round stones as their currency. They haul these giant stones
from island to island, hoping their canoe does not sink along the
way.
How much gold is stored at Ft. Knox? Or at any vault in the US?
If Germany requested the US to return its stash of gold being held
in US vaults, would the US comply? I doubt it.
Suppose the US no longer has the gold it was storing for Germany.
What would happen to whatever investments the US has in Germany?
If I was holding your gold, and you wanted it back, and I couldn't
find it, you would not be a happy camper.
Back to the original question.
How can the Fed give money to the Congress when the Fed has no
money of its own?
The Fed can print money. Or what it calls money. As much, or as
little, as it wants. It can raise interest rates. It can lower interest
rates. It can do lots of other things. It can create, and control, what
is commonly called "money". But what happens when all the money that
is printed gets out of control?
We know what happened in Germany. People had so much money they did
not what to do with it. Then came Hitler, who gave Germans everything
he promised, and more.
We also know what happeed in the USA. People had no money, and did
not know what to do. Then came FDR, who gave Americans everything he
promised, and more.
Yep. If you want to make money, gotta spend money, preferably other
people's money. Kinda like robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I appreciate your attention. You're not answering the question, but I take responsibility for it. I didn't express myself well. The question has been snipped, so I'll have to recover it.
That's okay. The article I cited above does give a very concise, and accurate, answer.
It should be clear now that I'm interested in the process. I may not know whether we are counting cats or dogs, but I should be able to see the arithmetic in clear steps. If I've counted 3 things already in day 1 and then I count 4 more things in day 2, then putting these two days together, I've counted 3 + 4 = 7, which I verify by looking up my addition table, which is something I assume to be correct.
Oh, I am sure you and others are able to count just fine. Next post
I am going to roast Griffin's "mandrake mechanism" over very hot coals.
And see if there is anything left when the flames subside. Feel free
to comment on my upcoming analysis.
Hello Wayne,
[..]
Griffin does not have a very good grasp on how things work.
It was you who recommended me the book. :-)
These are his stated beliefs. Make of them what you will.
From his very own homepage -
https://freedomforceinternational.org/position-statements/
Enjoy his entire site. Lots there.
Here is a talk by him, on a different site -
https://www.bigeye.com/griffin.htm
That should be enough to give you an idea as to where he is
coming from. In all his writings, he is consistent with his POV.
Griffin does not have a very good grasp on how things work.
It was you who recommended me the book. :-)
Highly. Very highly. It is the best. The very best. And I am not
the only one who recommends reading this book. It is a true classic,
and is extremely popular among many, including some US Senators.
https://tinyurl.com/st3feq3
This page doesn't recommend the book. Ron Paul might, I don't know if
he does. In any case Ron Paul does seem serious about understanding things because he seems to invite serious people who do seriously work
on understanding things.
``What is money?'' by Joseph Salerno https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vowbrq_g5NM
``What is constitutional money?'' by Edwin Vieira https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6gMkKmQSW4
``What about money causes economic crisis?'' by Peter Schiff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npJ0CUT8d_Y
The Congress does not spend money. It appropriates funds. The
Department of the Treasury is part of the Executive Branch, not the
Legislative Branch. How can the Department of the Treasury sell what
it cannot own?
It's kinda like robbing Peter to pay Paul. There has to be a victim,
even if that victim never realizes he/she is the victim.
Paper bills and coins made of metal have no real value. People are
able to spend it as "legal tender" only because government endorsed
it. Otherwise, those paper bills and coins made of metal would be
just as worthless.
IOW, people spend it because they believe it has value. If they did
not believe it had value, it would be used for something else.
Some people like to save it rather than spend it. But what they
are actually doing is allow other people to spend it since they are
not spending it themselves.
See how that works? Are you catching on yet?
What Griffin calls the "Mandrake Mechanism" is his way of trying
to put the blame on inflation as being the root cause of all evil.
But if you take the time to analyze what is really happening, you
will find deflation to be far more destructive than inflation.
If you want to make money you have to spend money. Preferably
other people's money. Saving money is losing money, since all money
loses value over time. And you are talking about paper bills, which
have no value to begin with.
Austerity has never worked in the past. It will not work now.
And it will never work in the future. What happens, is people just
wait. And wait. And wait. For prices to drop. And drop. And drop.
That is no way to build an economy.
The idea of fiat money, or scrip, is nothing new. People place
value on objects of their own choice, or what the leaders of their
tribe have dictated. Even primitive societies use fiat money.
We could just as well be using snake oil. The people of Yap use
giant round stones as their currency. They haul these giant stones
from island to island, hoping their canoe does not sink along the
way.
How much gold is stored at Ft. Knox? Or at any vault in the US?
If Germany requested the US to return its stash of gold being held
in US vaults, would the US comply? I doubt it.
Suppose the US no longer has the gold it was storing for Germany.
What would happen to whatever investments the US has in Germany?
If I was holding your gold, and you wanted it back, and I couldn't
find it, you would not be a happy camper.
Back to the original question.
How can the Fed give money to the Congress when the Fed has no
money of its own?
The Fed can print money. Or what it calls money. As much, or as
little, as it wants. It can raise interest rates. It can lower interest
rates. It can do lots of other things. It can create, and control, what
is commonly called "money". But what happens when all the money that
is printed gets out of control?
We know what happened in Germany. People had so much money they did
not what to do with it. Then came Hitler, who gave Germans everything
he promised, and more.
We also know what happeed in the USA. People had no money, and did
not know what to do. Then came FDR, who gave Americans everything he
promised, and more.
Yep. If you want to make money, gotta spend money, preferably other
people's money. Kinda like robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I appreciate your attention. You're not answering the question, but I
take responsibility for it. I didn't express myself well. The
question has been snipped, so I'll have to recover it.
That's okay. The article I cited above does give a very concise, and
accurate, answer.
If you're talking about
https://tinyurl.com/st3feq3
then you can't be serious.
This page ridicules the work and doesn't answer anything.
I'm perplexed you'd say this page answer the question.
We must be having a serious miscommunication here.
[...]
It should be clear now that I'm interested in the process. I may not
know whether we are counting cats or dogs, but I should be able to see
the arithmetic in clear steps. If I've counted 3 things already in day
1 and then I count 4 more things in day 2, then putting these two days
together, I've counted 3 + 4 = 7, which I verify by looking up my
addition table, which is something I assume to be correct.
Oh, I am sure you and others are able to count just fine. Next post
I am going to roast Griffin's "mandrake mechanism" over very hot coals.
And see if there is anything left when the flames subside. Feel free
to comment on my upcoming analysis.
Sounds great! Thanks! (I haven't any new posts on this, though.)
Griffin does not have a very good grasp on how things work.
It was you who recommended me the book. :-)
These are his stated beliefs. Make of them what you will.
From his very own homepage -
https://freedomforceinternational.org/position-statements/
Enjoy his entire site. Lots there.
Here is a talk by him, on a different site -
https://www.bigeye.com/griffin.htm
Thanks. Incidentally, I had already read this talk. That does clarify his meanings of some of his description in chapter ten of ``The Creature from Jekyll Island''.
That should be enough to give you an idea as to where he is
coming from. In all his writings, he is consistent with his POV.
Yes, thanks.
But, you see, I'm not worried about his position or ``where he is coming from''. Of course it's a very interesting thing to understand a person deeply, but for Wayne Harris right now the moment is to verify
arithmetic. We begin verifying that ``2 + 2 = 4'' and then then we move to claims such as ``17 is a prime number''. We'll leave interesting stories of how Gauss really found the normal distribution for a more retrospective moment of life. The moment is to know it exists and to
use it to calculate probabilities. In other words, most of the causes Griffin lays out in his talks and books are not important to the
beginner: what matters most is how things work and how we can verify it.
So here's a pretty simple question. Is there an _official_ reporter of the
US national debt? (If so, where does it show it the amount?)
A follow-up question would be: how can we get an official history of the increases in the national debt? (That is, where is the accounting statements for the number over the last few decades?)
Thanks so much.
So here's a pretty simple question. Is there an _official_ reporter of the
US national debt? (If so, where does it show it the amount?)
The Department of the Treasury.
The stats can be viewed online.
If you're talking about
https://tinyurl.com/st3feq3
then you can't be serious.
There are different schools of thought on this subject. And each
school is quite serious, in its own way.
Fortunately, the American people have a solution ...
I'm perplexed you'd say this page answer the question.
We must be having a serious miscommunication here.
How can an economy continue to grow when there is no increase
in production? Griffin argues that interest rates are an increase
in production. But there is no increase in interest rates. People
are losing jobs. Businesses are closing.
[...]
reporter of theSo here's a pretty simple question. Is there an _official_
US national debt? (If so, where does it show it the amount?)
The Department of the Treasury.
The stats can be viewed online.
That makes perfect sense. I get to
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Markets/Pages/national-debt.aspx
and then I go to
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd.htm
The question is which report tells me the total national debt and where. I'm not interested in budget deficits or anything. I just to see how
and where does the Treasury report the total national debt. Can you
point an accurate arrow to it? I appreciate that! Thanks!
Hello Wayne,
[...]
So here's a pretty simple question. Is there an _official_
reporter of the US national debt? (If so, where does it show
it the amount?)
The Department of the Treasury.
The stats can be viewed online.
That makes perfect sense. I get to
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Markets/Pages/national-debt.aspx
and then I go to
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd.htm
The question is which report tells me the total national debt and where. I'm not interested in budget deficits or anything. I just to see how and where does the Treasury report the total national debt. Can you point an accurate arrow to it? I appreciate that! Thanks!
Here is a site that breaks it down in chunks, year by year -
https://www.thestreet.com/politics/national-debt-year-by-year-14876008
You can find the same info at the Department of the Treasury site,
but it is not nearly as colorful. :)
"Deficits don't matter." ~Dick Cheney
There are different schools of thought on this subject. And each
school is quite serious, in its own way.
This page ridicules the book without precisely pointing anything wrong with it. That's not a serious observation about the subject.
[...]
Fortunately, the American people have a solution ...
Edwin Vieira lays out a very reasonable plan. I suppose you have read
The Monetary Powers and Disabilities of the U.S. Constitution
That's not the multi-volume Pieces of Eight; that's just the report written to the Gold Commission in 1982, which is not a long read.
I'm perplexed you'd say this page answer the question.
We must be having a serious miscommunication here.
How can an economy continue to grow when there is no increase
in production? Griffin argues that interest rates are an increase
in production. But there is no increase in interest rates. People
are losing jobs. Businesses are closing.
Where does he say that interest rates are an increase in production?
Thanks!
Hi, Lee!
Lee Lofaso - Wayne Harris <0@2.203.2> writes:
Hello Wayne,
[...]
So here's a pretty simple question. Is there an _official_
reporter of the US national debt? (If so, where does it show
it the amount?)
The Department of the Treasury.
The stats can be viewed online.
That makes perfect sense. I get to
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Markets/Pages/national-debt.aspx
and then I go to
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd.htm
The question is which report tells me the total national debt and where.
I'm not interested in budget deficits or anything. I just to see how >> WH> and where does the Treasury report the total national debt. Can you
point an accurate arrow to it? I appreciate that! Thanks!
Here is a site that breaks it down in chunks, year by year -
https://www.thestreet.com/politics/national-debt-year-by-year-14876008
Wonderful! Thanks so much for this.
You can find the same info at the Department of the Treasury site,
but it is not nearly as colorful. :)
I suppose. I'll do this confirmation as my next step.
Hello Wayne,
There are different schools of thought on this subject. And each
school is quite serious, in its own way.
This page ridicules the book without precisely pointing anything wrong with it. That's not a serious observation about the subject.
It presents an angle not all will agree with.
[...]
Fortunately, the American people have a solution ...
Edwin Vieira lays out a very reasonable plan. I suppose you have read
The Monetary Powers and Disabilities of the U.S. Constitution
That's not the multi-volume Pieces of Eight; that's just the report written to the Gold Commission in 1982, which is not a long read.
Far shorter is Anthony Sutton's "The Federal Reserve Conspiracy".
I'm perplexed you'd say this page answer the question.
We must be having a serious miscommunication here.
How can an economy continue to grow when there is no increase
in production? Griffin argues that interest rates are an increase
in production. But there is no increase in interest rates. People
are losing jobs. Businesses are closing.
Where does he say that interest rates are an increase in production?
That is the "magic money" created by the Fed due to the "mandrake
mechanism" written about by Griffin. This is what the Fed creates out
of thin air, how we can spend our way out of debt. Just think about
the benefits. When that 61% of bonds that comes due within four years
needs to be paid, all the Fed needs to do is raise interest rates.
Then, we refinance those bonds so there is no default.
All the faith and credit backed up by the US government. Guess which
country do you think will benefit the most? If you guessed China, you
would be right.
Thanks!
China owns us. Only we do not realize it yet.
Hi, Lee!
Lee Lofaso - Wayne Harris <0@2.203.2> writes:
Hello Wayne,
[...]
So here's a pretty simple question. Is there an _official_
reporter of the US national debt? (If so, where does it show
it the amount?)
The Department of the Treasury.
The stats can be viewed online.
That makes perfect sense. I get to
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Markets/Pages/national-debt.aspx
and then I go to
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd.htm
The question is which report tells me the total national debt and where.
I'm not interested in budget deficits or anything. I just to see how >> WH> and where does the Treasury report the total national debt. Can you
point an accurate arrow to it? I appreciate that! Thanks!
Here is a site that breaks it down in chunks, year by year -
https://www.thestreet.com/politics/national-debt-year-by-year-14876008
Wonderful! Thanks so much for this.
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