2019 FTSC election, call for nominations
========================================


An election for FTSC standing members starts on Sunday, 10th of
November 2019 at 20:00 UTC.

As per FTA-1000.002 the number of FTSC members should be no less than
7 and no more than 30. Presently there are 14 FTSC members; 8 of those
have terms expiring. That leaves room for a maximum of 30-(14-8)=24
members to be elected.

From FTA-1001.007

3.2 FTSC Standing Members
-------------------------

FTSC members are appointed for a two year renewable term. [50 % of
appointments on initial formation of the FTSC shall be for a 3 year
renewable term, to ensure continuity of the Committee on expiry of
the terms.]

To be selected as a FTSC member, an individual must be a Fidonet
node, and should be actively involved in Fidonet. Examples include
having put out a Fidonet-related product or having updated a product
in the preceding two years, or having experience as a Coordinator,
Echomail Coordinator or mail or file Hub.

Standing members may be nominated Fidonet-wide by all of the
following methods:

1. Any RC.
2. A nominating committee established for the purpose by the FTSC.
3. A nominating committee established for the purpose by the ZCC.

A nominating committee may not consist of any current member or
officer of the FTSC.

Standing members are appointed on the basis of a vote by all RCs
who are nodelisted as holding those positions at the time the
nominations are published. A successful candidate must receive
approval by a majority of votes.
Publication of the nomination and the voting procedure, and posting
of RC votes, shall take place openly in the FTSC_PUBLIC echo, and
voting shall close three weeks after publication of the vote.

The status of RC's will be determined by nodelist.305 of this year by
the list as issued by the ZC in the zone where they reside.

All RCs and members of a nominating committee are hereby
invited to nominate members. Nominations must be posted in the
FTSC_PUBLIC echo.

Nominations start at Sunday, 10 November 2019, 20:00 UTC and end at
Sunday, 1 December 2019, 20:00 UTC.

Nominators are advised to sound out prospective nominees before
filing a nomination. There is little or no point in nominating
someone that has not shown interest and expressed willingness to
accept.

Note to candidates: The main task of the FTSC is to document current
practise. Contrary to what the name suggests, the FTSC does not create standards out of the blue. Current Fidonet practise evolves and when
it has stabilized, it may become a standard through FTSC documentation.
Also, the FTSC is not an enforcement body. Those who wish to join the
FTSC in order to "engineer Fidonet" may be in for a disappointment.
Our main job is that of a clerk. We write the technical manual, we do
not design the machine. To avoid disappointment, sysops interested in
joining the FTSC are strongly advised to read the following documents:

http://ftsc.org/docs/fta-1000.002
http://ftsc.org/docs/fta-1001.007

Andrew Leary
FTSC Election Coordinator

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

Andrew,

Standing members may be nominated Fidonet-wide by all of the
following methods:

1. Any RC.

As far as I can tell, in the routed netmail you sent around to the RCs one is missing: RC88...

Region,88,Chile,Chile,Patricio_Rodriguez,-Unpublished-,300,CM,
IBN:mastodontbbs.hopto.org

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hello Ward!

11 Nov 19 10:26, you wrote to Andrew Leary:

Standing members may be nominated Fidonet-wide by all of the
following methods:

1. Any RC.

As far as I can tell, in the routed netmail you sent around to the RCs one is missing: RC88...

Region,88,Chile,Chile,Patricio_Rodriguez,-Unpublished-,300,CM,
IBN:mastodontbbs.hopto.org

For Andrew the Z1 nodelist is leading. R88 is not listed in the Z1
nodelist. ;(


Kees

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20180707
* Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)

Kees,

As far as I can tell, in the routed netmail you sent around to the Kv>WD> RCs one is missing: RC88...

...

For Andrew the Z1 nodelist is leading. R88 is not listed in the Z1 nodelist. ;(

Andrew has asked all the ZCs to send him the NODELIST.305 for their zone. He is
only using the Z1-version to determine Z1-eligibility.

But ZC4 has not (yet) sent in his nodelist.

\%/@rd

{Pay attention to the Origin :-) }

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hello Ward!

11 Nov 19 10:26, you wrote to me:

As far as I can tell, in the routed netmail you sent around to the RCs
one is missing: RC88...

Region,88,Chile,Chile,Patricio_Rodriguez,-Unpublished-,300,CM,
IBN:mastodontbbs.hopto.org

Region 88 is not listed in the Zone 1, 2, or 3 version of the nodelist.

RC status for purposes of the election is determined by NODELIST.305 as published by each ZC. I have not yet received a copy of the ZC4 version of the nodelist. When/if I do, assuming Region 88 is listed, RC88 will be welcome to participate in the nomination and voting process.

Andrew
FTSC Election Coordinator

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

Andrew,

I have not yet received a copy of the ZC4 version of
the nodelist. When/if I do, assuming Region 88 is listed, RC88 will be welcome to participate in the nomination and voting process.

Hmmm ... so ... since you have not received the official Z4-version of the nodelist and as a consequence can not determine eligibility of RCs to present candidates, how do you explain inviting RC80 for Brazil and RC90 for Argentina to put forward candidates in the FTSC-election ... after all, you don't know they are listed in 305?

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hello Ward!

12 Nov 19 09:41, you wrote to me:

Hmmm ... so ... since you have not received the official Z4-version of
the nodelist and as a consequence can not determine eligibility of RCs
to present candidates, how do you explain inviting RC80 for Brazil and RC90 for Argentina to put forward candidates in the FTSC-election ... after all, you don't know they are listed in 305?

RC80 and RC90 are listed in all 3 of the other zones, including the Zone 2 nodelist, which you publish as the International Coordinator.

In the absence of a response from ZC4, this is the best we can do.

Judging from past experience, I find it unlikely that anyone from Zone 4 will participate in the election.

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

Hello Ward,

On Tuesday November 12 2019 09:41, you wrote to Andrew Leary:

Hmmm ... so ... since you have not received the official Z4-version of
the nodelist and as a consequence can not determine eligibility of RCs
to present candidates, how do you explain inviting RC80 for Brazil and RC90 for Argentina to put forward candidates in the FTSC-election ... after all, you don't know they are listed in 305?

=== quote ===

7 International Coordinator Procedures

7.1 General

The International Coordinator is the "first among equals" Zone Coordinator.

The International Coordinator has the primary task of coordinating the
creation of the master nodelist by managing the distribution between the
Zones of the Zone nodelists.

=== end quote ===

=== quote ===

1.3.4 Nodelist

[..]

The full list as published by the International Coordinator is regarded as the official FidoNet nodelist, and is used in circumstances such as determination of eligibility for voting.

=== end quote ===

It is your failure to create and publish the master list as mentioned in P4 7.1 and 1.3.4 that is the cause of this problem.

Publishing such a list is mentioned as "primary task" of the International Coordinator..

Cheers, Michiel

-+- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303




Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Michiel,

It is your failure to create and publish the master list as mentioned in
P4 7.1 and 1.3.4 that is the cause of this problem.

Publishing such a list is mentioned as "primary task" of the
International Coordinator..

It seems you and the current FTSC-administrator have a different opinion on this, because he writes:

*****************************************************************************

RC80 and RC90 are listed in all 3 of the other zones, including the Zone
2 nodelist, which you publish as the International Coordinator.

*****************************************************************************

Besides, Friday day-305 the IC 'did' publish a nodelist.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hello Ward,

On Tuesday November 12 2019 11:25, you wrote to me:

Besides, Friday day-305 the IC 'did' publish a nodelist.

;A FidoNet Nodelist for Friday, November 1, 2019 -- Day number 305 : 03516
;A
;A MakeNL 3.4.5 (Win32)
;A
;A The FidoNet NodeList, a listing of the systems within FidoNet.
;A
;A This is the nodelist produced at 2:2/0
;A

2:2/0 is the node number of the ZC2. There is no mention anywhere that this is the master list published by the IC as mentioned in P4. Also the accompanying TIC file does not present it as originating from 2:2/1000.

D:\FIDO\SECURE\TICSAVE>type TK301504.TIC
Area NODELIST
Origin 2:292/854
From 2:292/854
File NODELIST.305
Desc Fidonet NODELIST for this week (RAW)
CRC 1E17AC18
Created by Hatch v2.10 (C) Copyright Barry Geller - 1988,1989,1990,1991,1992 Path 2:292/854 1572585304 Fri Nov 01 05:15:04 2019 GMT
Seenby 2:292/854
Seenby 2:2/0
Seenby 2:280/5555
Seenby 2:291/100
Seenby 2:292/610
Seenby 2:410/9
Pw XXXXXXX

QED.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Michiel,

2:2/0 is the node number of the ZC2. There is no mention anywhere that
this is the master list published by the IC as mentioned in P4. Also the accompanying TIC file does not present it as originating from 2:2/1000.

Are you dying? Are you sick in any way? Is there anything we can do for you?

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hello Ward,

On Tuesday November 12 2019 15:52, you wrote to me:
^^^^^
What time zone? Thers is no TZUTC kludge in your mesaages.

2:2/0 is the node number of the ZC2. There is no mention anywhere
that this is the master list published by the IC as mentioned in
P4. Also the accompanying TIC file does not present it as
originating from 2:2/1000.

Are you dying? Are you sick in any way? Is there anything we can do
for you?

Typical. When out of arguments question the sanity of the messenger.

You can't have the cake and eat it too. NODELIST.305 as issued fom 2:2/0 is either also the master list as issued by the IC (Case 1) or it isn't (Case 2). It can't be both.

Case 1: Your whining about RC88 missing from the invitation send by netmaiil by
the FTSC administrator to all RCs is just that: whining. There is no RC88 in NODELIST.305, the master list as published by the IC.

Case 2: The Z4 part of the nodelist was not properly distributed to all ZCs. The IC has failed his duty as laid out in P4, 1.2.7.

So which is it? Case 1 or Case 2?

The IC has also failed in coordinating the distribution of the

=== quote ===

1.2.7 International Coordinator

The International Coordinator is the "first among equals" Zone Coordinator,
and coordinates the joint production of the master nodelist by the Zone Coordinators.

=== end quote ===

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Michiel,

On Tuesday November 12 2019 15:52, you wrote to me:
^^^^^
What time zone? Thers is no TZUTC kludge in your mesaages.

You had 22 years to become aware of this feature of Bridge. Maybe you're just a
late bloomer who needs a little more time ? :-)

Why not give it up? This getting you nowhere ?

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hi Ward.

12 Nov 19 23:03:02, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

@MSGID: 2:292/854 190c3a25
@REPLY: 2:280/5555 5dcaddf4
Michiel,

On Tuesday November 12 2019 15:52, you wrote to me:
^^^^^
What time zone? Thers is no TZUTC kludge in your mesaages.

You had 22 years to become aware of this feature of Bridge.

Is it a feature NOT to support TZUTC?

Sure it is. There are lots of features in 'Bridge'.

'Tommi

---
* Origin: Point One, Colonia del Sacramento, Zone4 (2:221/0.1)

Hello Ward,

On Tuesday November 12 2019 23:03, you wrote to me:

Why not give it up? This getting you nowhere ?

You can't have the cake and eat it too. NODELIST.305 as issued from 2:2/0 is either also the master list as issued by the IC (Case 1) or it isn't (Case 2). It can't be both.

Case 1: Your whining about RC88 missing from the invitation send by netmaiil by
the FTSC administrator to all RCs is just that: whining. There is no RC88 in NODELIST.305, the master list as published by the IC.

Case 2: The Z4 part of the nodelist was not properly distributed to all ZCs. The IC has failed his duty as laid out in P4, 1.2.7.
So which is it? Case 1 or Case 2?

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hello Michiel!

12 Nov 19 23:51, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

[...]

Case 2: The Z4 part of the nodelist was not properly distributed to
all ZCs. The IC has failed his duty as laid out in P4, 1.2.7. So which
is it? Case 1 or Case 2?

Michiel the IC is in charge from 23 October 2019, now we're on 13 November, do you think that an issue like the Z4 nodelist would been worked out in less than
a month?

The IC is quite old, I've tryied to improve him with the Italian Extra Virgin Olive Oil but also that miraculos potion need time to work properly. :P

But I think that this rust can't be lubed with that oil. :(

Take it easy, life is too short to worry about rust and fidonet need your expertise. :)

Ciao!
Fabio

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ]\/[imac Rebirth Boss Point (2:335/364.1)

Michiel,

2:2/0 is the node number of the ZC2. There is no mention anywhere
that this is the master list published by the IC as mentioned in
P4. Also the accompanying TIC file does not present it as
originating from 2:2/1000.

Are you dying? Are you sick in any way? Is there anything we can do
for you?

STFU and stop your digusting personal attacks.

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: * nigirO (2:280/464.47)

STFU and stop your digusting personal attacks.

Time for you to get a node-number and contribute something ... anything ... Looking forward to that novell concept.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Fabio,

Michiel the IC is in charge from 23 October 2019, now we're on 13
November, do you think that an issue like the Z4 nodelist would been
worked out in less than a month?

There's nothing for an IC to do in the case of the Z4 segment/nodelist. It's totally left to the Z4-people to handle it and if they don't then they don't. As you and other people have said, this is a hobby. But for selected individuals at times it is more than that, it is promoted to a forum to show-off how good they really think they are. Whether the rest of the community
shares that point of view becomes rather irrelevant.

The IC is quite old, I've tryied to improve him with the Italian Extra Virgin Olive Oil but also that miraculos potion need time to work
properly. :P

I've run-out. There's just an empty bottle left staring at me now and cheap mixed Spanish olive oil from dubious sources. At times I still sniff at the bottle though. :-)

On the subject of age ... I am not "quite old" ... The past summer I spent primitive camping in the Rockies and should you ever come this way you are invited to the sailboat which I bought last year.... Michiel is older than me, as are certain others.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Michiel,

So which is it? Case 1 or Case 2?

You have been on my back, at certain periods more than other times, since March
2007 when you were not appointed RC28 after Jan Vermeulen resigned.

12 years should be fairly enough to get over it.

If you want to push something across my desk again, you have been informed on how to proceed.

Try to enjoy the remainder of this day, it only lasts 24 hours.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hello Ward,

On Wednesday November 13 2019 10:02, you wrote to me:

So which is it? Case 1 or Case 2?

I see no answer to my question...

You have been on my back, at certain periods more than other times,
since March 2007 when you were not appointed RC28 after Jan Vermeulen resigned.

Rewriting history AND pulling a Witt. Two fleas in one stroke. Congratulations.

If you want to push something across my desk again, you have been
informed on how to proceed.

I have come to the conclusion that life is too short to bother with your power games.

On-topic is all that desires interaction between the FTSC and the
Fidonet community. Off-topic is everything else.

To avoid moderator intervention, I will leave it at that.

EOT.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Time for you to get a node-number and contribute something ...
anything ... Looking forward to that novell concept.

Enlighten me. What has a node number with your habbit to insult people? Fidonet
was once created to connect users between BBSes. Nowadays certain individuals compulsivly making fun of users and points because of their status. Or is it just a convenient and silly ad hominem attack?

It also reminds me of a quote an IC once quoted: "When someones starts correcting your spelling or grammar in an on-line discussion, it's like acknowledging defeat. You know you just won the argument". Just replace the spelling part by node status ...

Just in case you have not recognized my contributions: everytime you try to insult people I call bullshit until you stop that rude conduct.

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: * nigirO (2:280/464.47)

Hello Fabio,

On Wednesday November 13 2019 07:54, you wrote to me:

Michiel the IC is in charge from 23 October 2019,

He has been IC before. He knows what he got himself into...

now we're on 13 November, do you think that an issue like the Z4
nodelist would been worked out in less than a month?

No, I don't think so. I think it can not be solved at all. Not if one wants to have the omelet without breaking the eggs that is...

I am not the one to bring up the issue of RC88 am I? Ward is just making waves for the sake of making waves. During the 11 years of my turn of holding the FTSC chair, I have tried over and over again to get the attention of the Z4 RCs. I never got a response. Not a single one. Not even an ACK that my messages
were received. Ward knows just as well that Z4 is a ghost zone and that the Z4 part of the nodelist does not reflect reality.

The IC is quite old,

68 going on 69...

Take it easy, life is too short to worry about rust and fidonet need
your expertise. :)

If Fidonet needs my expertise, the powers that be have a strange way of showing
it. :(

Sorry, the time that I enjoyed carrying coal to Newcastle is gone. See my article in Fidonews of 28 October.

I will leave it at that and clear the area so that my successor can do his job of running the election.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Ward Dossche wrote to Oli <=-

STFU and stop your digusting personal attacks.

Time for you to get a node-number and contribute something ...
anything ... Looking forward to that novell concept.

Well, you'll have to look backwards to see much of novell these
days. Same thing with banyan. ;-)



... AAcckk!! II''mm iinn hhaallff dduupplleexx
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Hi Ward.

13 Nov 19 09:59:58, you wrote to Oli:

Time for you to get a node-number and contribute something ... anything

... Looking forward to that novell

concept.

Why on earth should everyone get a node number? Isn't it nice to have users in fidonet?

'Tommi

---
* Origin: Point One, Colonia del Sacramento, Zone4 (2:221/0.1)

Hello, Dan Clough.
On 13/11/19 10:27 you wrote:

Well, you'll have to look backwards to see much of novell these
days. Same thing with banyan. ;-)

Banyan Vines, a jump into the past!

Not too lucky for a net o.s.

--
Ciao! :)
Fabio.
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: ]\/[imac boss android point (2:335/364.3)

anything ... Looking forward to that novell concept.

Well, you'll have to look backwards to see much of novell
these
days. Same thing with banyan. ;-)

Banyan? I loved it when it came out. Very $$ but the company I worked for was
installing it at utility companies. Was pretty nice.


--- InterEcho 1.20
* Origin: Home Of InterMail/InterEcho (1:106/201)

Michiel,

On Tuesday November 12 2019 15:52, you wrote to me:
^^^^^
What time zone? Thers is no TZUTC kludge in your mesaages.

I hope it is now to your liking. Nick Andre was kind enough to tell me how to set it.

Quite a relief, I expect, now that you know my timezone. We live some 113km (70
miles) from eachother in a NE-axis so there was no way for you to know my timezone.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hi! Andrew,

On 11 Nov 19 03:12, Andrew Leary wrote to All:

2019 FTSC election, call for nominations

I wish to nominate: Deon George, sysop 3:633/509, as a candidate.


NOTE:
----

To current members of the FTSC whose tenures are expiring in December 2019, and
who would seek re-election, please netmail me -before- the end of the nomination period. Or else...

Cheers,
Paul.

... May your sails be dry and blade slick with blood! =B^)
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
* Origin: Quinn's Rock - Live from Paul's Xubuntu desktop! (3:640/1384)

Hello Paul!

21 Nov 19 11:03, you wrote to Coordinator:

I wish to nominate: Deon George, sysop 3:633/509, as a candidate.

ACK.

Andrew
FTSC Election Coordinator

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

Re: 2019 FTSC Standing Member Election - Call for Nominations
By: Paul Quinn to Coordinator on Thu Nov 21 2019 11:03 am

I wish to nominate: Deon George, sysop 3:633/509, as a candidate.

I accept :)
...ëîåã

... The older you get, the more important is is not to act your age.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (3:633/509)

Deon,

I wish to nominate: Deon George, sysop 3:633/509, as a candidate.

I accept :)

Interesting.

You have been present in Fidonet for a year and 5 months 1993.04.16->1994.09.16, that's like 25 years ago, and then again from 2018.08.22 till now. That's also about one year and 5 months.

In the election rules Andrew Leary wrote:

"To be selected as a FTSC member, an individual must be a Fidonet
node, and should be actively involved in Fidonet. Examples include
having put out a Fidonet-related product or having updated a product
in the preceding two years, or having experience as a Coordinator,
Echomail Coordinator or mail or file Hub."

I am very interested to learn where this all fits in. Undoubtedly you will post
something of that nature real soon.

My concern is we do not need another person seeking a title or thinking it is important to have zonal representation ... there are absolutely incompetent people already in the FTSC. So if you qualify technically, I am eager to find out.

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Good ${greeting_time}, Deon!

21 Nov 2019 16:47:18, you wrote to Andrew Leary:

I wish to nominate: Deon George, sysop 3:633/509, as a candidate.

I accept :)

Now here comes first question to a candidate: what Fidonet software have you developed (or even contributed to) recently? git clone what?

...ëîåã

­¨åãï


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... that's why I really dislike fools.
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)

Hello Deon!

21 Nov 19 16:47, you wrote to me:

I wish to nominate: Deon George, sysop 3:633/509, as a candidate.

I accept :)

ACK.

Andrew
FTSC Election Coordinator

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)