There seems to be consensus (from my modest gleening and lurking in a
few of the other echos) that Fidonet needs "better software" and
"better ways to reach new people".
The whole world has moved from desktops and laptops towards mobile
gadgets for most of the daily tasks including reading news and all those online social network activities. IMHO the first priority in attracting
new people to the net would be to have user friendly apps for iOS and
Android plus the way to synchronize across multiple devices.
It would not be convenient to have separate point addresses for your desktop/iPad/phone and you should be able to seamlessly move across
them, say start reading on your iPad and pick up where you left on your phone on your commute to work, once you are at
your desk it would be nice to open up a desktop/laptop browser version of
the Fidonet reader to continue on a bigger screen.
UTF-8 support which adds
all those emoji and the possibility to mix different languages in one
message would be pretty much standard thing to expect from todays app.
Here and there we can see people are trying to embed some multimedia
content. There are a few options like posting an URL in the text with
or without framing, insert an uuencode file or having a fileecho as a carrier. This would be the bare minimum to start with to reach out for
new members (or bring back -exs).
I've heard of something called Aftershock (see Google Play Store).
I've seen its use by several people in these echos. Also, there is
the fidonet echo AFTERSHOCK specifically about it. I've seen some
recent postings in there.
Personnally, I don't see the practicality of this communication on
small smartphone screens. I considered trying Aftershock on my Blackberry Z10 but then backed off. Typing messages on that thing
would be nuts.
You make a contradiction. First you mention that "the world has moved
away from desktops and laptops", but then you want features to sync fidonet to a laptop/desktop. I believe that laptops/desktops (ie
devices with larger screens) will still have usefulness.
The syncing part sounds interesting. Maybe you could achieve a modest
solution with a point installation on a portable thumbdrive?
..or those things are so distinctive to the internet and the
forum-style of posts that they are better to run away from? ;)
meansHello, August!From Nil Alexandrov To August Abolins
Wednesday April 03 2019 19:15, from August Abolins -> Nil Alexandrov:
I've heard of something called Aftershock (see Google Play Store).Aftershock is the Android only app and is not free. HotdogEd on the other hand has more features and is totally free for FTN usage (there is a paid NNTP module). That being said, none of these apps are available for iOS
I've seen its use by several people in these echos. Also, there is
the fidonet echo AFTERSHOCK specifically about it. I've seen some recent postings in there.
iPhone and iPad. Also, I would like to stress out that both of them are written by tech folks, software engineers with no dedicated UI design person on the team. It makes the app way less approachable to just regular usersand
not geeks.
.. UTF-8 support which adds all those emoji and the
possibility to mix different languages in one message would be pretty much standard thing to expect from todays app.
...There are a few options like posting an URL in the text with or
without framing, insert an uuencode file or having a fileecho as a carrier. This would be the bare minimum to start with to reach out for
new members (or bring back -exs).
From Nil Alexandrov:
Aftershock is the Android only app and is not free. HotdogEd on the
other hand has more features and is totally free for FTN usage (there
is a paid NNTP module). That being said, none of these apps are
available for iOS means iPhone and iPad. Also, I would like to stress
out that both of them are written by tech folks, software engineers
with no dedicated UI design person on the team. It makes the app way
less approachable to just regular users and not geeks.
Hotdoged nntp provider is freely available at the authors website.
-+- HotdogEd/2.13.5 (Android; Google Android; rv:1) Hotdoged
On 04-03-19 19:01, Nil Alexandrov <=-
spoke to August Abolins about topics.. let's hear your <=-
The whole world has moved from desktops and laptops towards mobile
gadgets for most of the daily tasks including reading news and all
those online social network activities. IMHO the first priority in
Aftershock is the Android only app and is not free. HotdogEd on the
other hand has more features and is totally free for FTN usage (there
is a paid NNTP module). That being said, none of these apps are
available for iOS means iPhone and iPad.
Also, I would like to stress
out that both of them are written by tech folks, software engineers
with no dedicated UI design person on the team. It makes the app way
less approachable to just regular users and not geeks.
Personnally, I don't see the practicality of this communication on
small smartphone screens. I considered trying Aftershock on my
Blackberry Z10 but then backed off. Typing messages on that thing
would be nuts.
It's hard to find a smartphone with the screen size smaller than 5" and ne models are above 6". iPads and tablets are used for comfortable web
surfing and definitely exceed the typical Fidonet 80x25 textmode messages browsing.
The syncing part sounds interesting. Maybe you could achieve a modest AA>> solution with a point installation on a portable thumbdrive?
The synchronization feature was actually asked by many users here in R50 but the design is an open question.
For me, the unicode vs utf-8 and char sets is complicated. Isn't
there a backward compatibility issue in force with fidonet?
Some of the readers out there already support URL in text. OpenXP apparently has the feature (although I am having a little issue to
make it cooperate for me as I am still a noob with this program). :(
The newsreader method via Windows programs supports URLs in text
quite nicely too.
But I primarily just quoted your last few lines because you expressed
the matter of how to "reach out for new members (or bring back
-exs)." A new program, especially iOS support, might impress some
people (and they tell two friends, and they tell two friends, and so
on) ..but the one important matter is to generate the awareness of fidonet, that it is not (yet) a dead dog. <g> And then, get people discover what it is, why it exists, how it works and *how* to get
onboard with at least the current fair of progs.
There has been a recent 2nd wind to revisit the condition of the fidonet.org site - and fix it.
From the perspective of messaging (echomail), how can people be
convinced that the fidonet network is even worthwhile?
http://utf8everywhere.org
The fact that you don't care about charsets and encodings is that
all software developers just started using Unicode/utf8 everywhere
since about 2000.
Also, as an English native speaker you don't read non-Latin alphabet text, except those fancy accents present in French which is well supported within 8-bit encoding.
The rest of the world was suffering from multiple encodings
until the Unicode standard took place.
Perhaps a lot of the world, but there are still old curmudgeons like
me. I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to
change. I don't have a mobile gadgets. My cell phone is only used
to make voice calls in unusual situations, e.g. emergency or calling
home to check on an item on the grocery list. It costs me about
US$5.00 per month.
.. UTF-8 support which adds all those emoji and the possibility to
mix different languages in one message would be pretty much standard
thing to expect from todays app.
For me, the unicode vs utf-8
and char sets is complicated.
Isn't there a backward compatibility issue in force with fidonet?
Regarding Aftershock, can you blame a resourceful programmer to fetch
"something" for the effort? <g> People have the choice to vote with
their wallet.
Regarding HotdogEd, how long has it been out? The author's site only seems to document version 2.12 from 2016 as the earliest.
2 progs are certainly better than none at this juncture. ;) Doesn't
android have a bigger demographic/userbase than iOS?
Regarding no apps available for iOS, maybe development for that is
more complicated? Maybe the right person needs to have the time and
the fire to tackle the project.
Ya.. right out of the gate, programs/apps can be quite "ordinary". In
time and with user input, the UI can be improved.
The HotdogEd author seems to do a very faithful job in providing the documentation and installation steps. A community of users can help
each other too.
80x25 textmode messages browsing.Noted! The trend *has* been larger screens for the handheld devices.
I tried a simple newsgroup reader on my iPod several years ago and wondered "how is this even practical?" The iPod 2nd, 3rd and even
4th Gen screen is way too small for frequent message editing. But..
the tablets (even with external keyboards) can be quite workable.
Sync seems to be promoted heavily in other applications like Mozilla (bookmarks, history, tabs, passwords) across all of the devices you
might use. I wouldn't be surprised if a sync solution for fidonet emerged out of the resourceful folks in R50 or its neighbors.
I never said I don't care. I do like the automatic rendering of UTF-8 using Thunderbird reader. However, there is a problem in my OpenXP (originally a German program). Not sure about UTF-8 in WinPoint.
I am *not* a native English speaker. ;) French is a third language,
but hardly fluent. Wanna guess my first?
Interestingly, the QWK workflow was never a trend in Z2, instead we moved to the point systems when we needed to automatically download echomail for offline reading. I'm still not sure whether points were the thing in Z1 ever?
On 04-04-19 00:46, Dale Shipp wrote to Nil Alexandrov <=-
Perhaps a lot of the world, but there are still old curmudgeons like
me. I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.
I don't have a mobile gadgets. My cell phone is only used to make
voice calls in unusual situations, e.g. emergency or calling home to
check on an item on the grocery list. It costs me about US$5.00 per month.
I use a point myself, more for convenience than anything else. In the
last year or so I have had two points here that have both gone on to become regular nodes in the net.
No points at the moment but I keep an eye out for folks who would like
a point address.
If there was a better solution for mobile devices, I would use it in situations where I wanted to make a few quick posts. At this time,
that's not easy, have to jump through a few hoops with either NNTP
(better UI for a phone, but synchronisation issues, becayse status information is kept client side), or QWK - better data integrity, but
UI not as mobile friendly (either window too small or overlapping keyboard).
HotDogEd and AfterShock aren't a solution, because for me, a point on a phone has the same synchronisation issues as NNTP, if not worse, because
is effectively a separate FTN system.
We've never tried out OpenXP or WinPoint in R50, is it German local
market software?
BTW, we would like to use jamnntpd instead of Fidogate+INN or old ifmail+INN, but just cannot due to the lack charset support.
I am *not* a native English speaker. ;) French is a third
language, but hardly fluent. Wanna guess my first?
Oh, my, should've checked the nodelist first, ah yeah Finland language?
Interestingly, the QWK workflow was never a trend in Z2, instead we
moved to the point systems when we needed to automatically download
echomail for offline reading..
..I use a point myself, more for convenience than anything else. In
the last year or so I have had two points here that have both gone on
to become regular nodes in the net.
No points at the moment but I keep an eye out for folks who would like
a point address.
I found the following message with the subject "HotdogEd v1 (beta 1)"
in Russian dated back to 3/21/13, http://wfido.ru/m/RU.FIDONET.DIGEST/2:5020/849+514b1d29
One of the reason we don't have the iOS app is that it requires the
$100 developer license fee per year (such a showstopper) in order to install the app on your device.
..I wouldn't be surprised if a sync solution for fidonet emerged out
of the resourceful folks in R50 or its neighbors.
It's an interesting phenomenon here in R50, that we have mostly the full spectrum of ages presented in our Fidonet segment according to the recent census. How do we get young folks? Most are .curious., some of them are
the kids of the old sysops. The thing is that they possess multiple
gadgets so the matter of synching across them becomes natural.
For me, the unicode vs utf-8 and char sets is complicated.
unicode is UTF-8/16/32 ;)
The whole world has moved from desktops and laptops towards mobile
gadgets for most of the daily tasks including reading news and all
those online social network activities. IMHO the first priority in
Perhaps a lot of the world, but there are still old curmudgeons like
me. I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to
change.
I don't have a mobile gadgets. My cell phone is only used to make
voice calls in unusual situations, e.g. emergency or calling home to
check on an item on the grocery list. It costs me about US$5.00 per
month.
I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the imagination of message/echomail users in NA.
On 2019 Apr 04 18:54:00, you wrote to Alan Ianson:
I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the
imagination of message/echomail users in NA.
mostly because of no cost local calls... why be a point when you can connect to your favorite BBS to read/write messages online as well as uploading/downloading files and playing some door games... especially when a lot of systems gave users 60 minutes per day or more and were also able to offer multiple nodes so more than one user could be online at a time...
users genreally didn't have a problem installing an offline mail package since it was one program... trying to do the same for the piece-part point systems available at the time was more problematic... might as well set up a BBS with a tosser and mailer...
Heheheh. <g> Nope. My last name might be the best clue. ;)
One of the reason we don't have the iOS app is that it requiresOutch. I was not aware of that. And, per year? With that kind of
the $100 developer license fee per year (such a showstopper) in
order to install the app on your device.
fee I don't think you'd ever see a free fidonet app for iOS.
The Apple Developer Program annual fee is 99 USD
..I wouldn't be surprised if a sync solution for fidonet emerged
out of the resourceful folks in R50 or its neighbors.
Maybe have a series of YouTube videos on the "fears fun and foibles of
fidonet" (tm) ?
users genreally didn't have a problem installing an offline mail
package since it was one program... trying to do the same for the
piece-part point systems available at the time was more problematic...
might as well set up a BBS with a tosser and mailer...
I don't recall any piece-part issues with Frontdoor/APX. It seemed to be an all-in-one, if I remember correctly, as that is what I preconfigured on
diskette.
Heheheh. <g> Nope. My last name might be the best clue. ;)
No idea but I Googled it, so your last name is highly likely Latvian.
The other source is the nodelist search tool http://nodehist.fidonet.org.ua/?name=August+Abolins which shows a bunch of nodes under your name in Quebec and Ontario Canada. So I must admit that you confused me a bit ;-)
Maybe have a series of YouTube videos on the "fears fun and foibles
of fidonet" (tm) ?
I was thinking of making some UT videos about Fidonet and stuff and I can do it in a few languages (show off) but the thing is.. it isn't popular at all, for example check out the "Mystic Guy" on UT posting his Mystic BBS tutorials and has got only 551 subscribers.
On 04-04-19 20:09, Nil Alexandrov <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about topics.. let's hear <=-
Perhaps a lot of the world, but there are still old curmudgeons like
me. I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to
change. I don't have a mobile gadgets. My cell phone is only used
to make voice calls in unusual situations, e.g. emergency or calling
home to check on an item on the grocery list. It costs me about
US$5.00 per month.
Interestingly, the QWK workflow was never a trend in Z2, instead we
moved to the point systems when we needed to automatically download echomail for offline reading. I'm still not sure whether points were
the thing in Z1 ever?
On 04-04-19 21:31, Tony Langdon <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: topics.. let's hear <=-
Perhaps a lot of the world, but there are still old curmudgeons like
me. I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.
I don't have a mobile gadgets. My cell phone is only used to make
voice calls in unusual situations, e.g. emergency or calling home to
check on an item on the grocery list. It costs me about US$5.00 per month.
If there was a better solution for mobile devices, I would
use it in situations
On 04-04-19 18:25, August Abolins <=-
spoke to Tony Langdon about a sync solution for fidon <=-
** 04.04.19 - 21:31, Tony Langdon wrote to Dale Shipp:
Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.
On 04-04-19 19:49, August Abolins <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about topics.. let's hear <=-
But we are here to discuss the future and the changes! <g> Do you
not see any areas of improvement?
Do you have an option to use the QWKE format? You wouldn't have
cut-off subject lines.
On 04-04-19 18:54, August Abolins <=-
spoke to Alan Ianson about qwk and/or points <=-
I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the imagination of message/echomail users in NA.
Maybe it was the timing
of internet access coming into town and drawing people away to that.
Myself, I had about 12 or 15 dedicated points up to about year 2004. People loved the short-sessions and efficiency moving messages over dialup.
August Abolins wrote to Alan Ianson <=-
I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the imagination of message/echomail users in NA. Maybe it was the timing
of internet access coming into town and drawing people away to that.
On 04-04-19 18:25, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
Do you thing something like what IMAP does for email might work?
When I configure people's email from SMTP to IMAP they are impressed
that it makes no difference whether they use their laptop, desktop or mobile device. Webbased access to their mail is a bonus if the usual pc/device is not useable.
HotDogEd and AfterShock aren't a solution, because for me, a point on a phone has the same synchronisation issues as NNTP, if not worse, because is effectively a separate FTN system.
Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.
On 04-05-19 01:15, Dale Shipp wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
My mobile device is a dumb phone that is rarely turned on. It lives in the glove box of my car. I only use it for emergencies, or to call
home to check on the grocery list.
On 04-04-19 20:01, mark lewis wrote to August Abolins <=-
On 2019 Apr 04 18:54:00, you wrote to Alan Ianson:
I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the imagination of message/echomail users in NA.
mostly because of no cost local calls... why be a point when you can connect to your favorite BBS to read/write messages online as well as uploading/downloading files and playing some door games... especially
when a lot of systems gave users 60 minutes per day or more and were
also able to offer multiple nodes so more than one user could be online
at a time...
users genreally didn't have a problem installing an offline mail
package since it was one program... trying to do the same for the piece-part point systems available at the time was more problematic... might as well set up a BBS with a tosser and mailer...
On 04-04-19 22:26, August Abolins wrote to mark lewis <=-
Ya.. there is the "game" part of it to keep users online for a while.
But my audience was interested in inexpensive email (which I provided
by a gateway) primarily. Then, I introduced echomail, and most users loved it.
People loved the quick dialup, delivering and getting things done in a
few seconds. I rarely had complaints about busy signals. The phone
would receive many calls one after another. I had 2 lines at first for about a year, and then added 2 more.
On 04-05-19 01:56, August Abolins wrote to mark lewis <=-
Just before the internet/www browser approach took off, there was a
very interesting BBS solution by Shotgun BBS. It operated with a client/server style setup. The user ran a client program that dialed
up the bbs and the local user would have a very nice SVGA graphics interface experience. It was designed to be a very efficient way to
have wiz-bang graphics over modest dialup. I loved it.
On 04-04-19 18:43, Nil Alexandrov wrote to August Abolins <=-
http://utf8everywhere.org
The fact that you don't care about charsets and encodings is that all software developers just started using Unicode/utf8 everywhere since
about 2000.
Also, as an English native speaker you don't read non-Latin alphabet
text, except those fancy accents present in French which is well
supported within 8-bit encoding. The rest of the world was suffering
from multiple encodings until the Unicode standard took place.
On 04-04-19 19:46, August Abolins wrote to Nil Alexandrov <=-
The rest of the world was suffering from multiple encodings
until the Unicode standard took place.
I concur. UTF-8 = a good thing!
You should create an attractive WebBBS or a mobile app so it can issue a point >system automatically, otherwise the standard FTN style point system over binkp >protocol and friends is just an overkill for a curious guy landed on your home
page <g>.
Myself, I had about 12 or 15 dedicated points up to about year 2004.
People loved the short-sessions and efficiency moving messages over
dialup.
But I "pushed" it and demostrated how it works. A real-life demo helped
to sell the idea.
I lost favour in QWK for a variety of reasons.
The oldest one might be from just 2 years ago, but the guy is keeping
things current and expiring old videos that do not match the latest
versions of Mystic. Good work.
Old and fixed -- I resemble that :-}}
Do you have an option to use the QWKE format? You wouldn't have
cut-off subject lines.
Nope. I don't think that Maximus has that option.
I have heard of it, but don't fully know the distinctions. I don't
think it ever caught on as good as QWK did.
I seem to recall that Bluewave can handle QWKE, but not even sure of
that.
I lost favour in QWK for a variety of reasons.
I am favourable to offline mail. The difference between a point and
offline is that the point has the whole history where with offline you
are limited to what is in your packet. I guess that works for some.
..The main use for my PCs is either to run the BBS
(although the BBS runs in a linode these days) or a terminal to access
the BBS. :)
Do you think something like what IMAP does for email might work?
Yes and no. Yes, in that IMAP synchronises prefectly between devices,
no in that most implementations still leave you tied to the network
back end in real time - I know you can go offline with IMAP too, but..
The modern reality is we are highly mobile nowadays, and some of us do
swap devices fery frequently, depending on needs at the time.
users genreally didn't have a problem installing an offline mail
package since it was one program... trying to do the same for the
piece-part point systems available at the time was more problematic... ml>> might as well set up a BBS with a tosser and mailer...
Or spin one off a working BBS, like I did. :)
But my audience was interested in inexpensive email (which I provided
by a gateway) primarily. Then, I introduced echomail, and most users
loved it.
Echomail was the main focus of my system. I added some Usenet and mailing lists later via GIGO on my point system.
For me the biggest advantage of the point was that I could initiate a poll and then walk away until the system was back in idle mode, then I could read my mail at leisure.
Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.
Old and fixed -- I resemble that :-}}
I could never quite understand why points never seemed to catch the
imagination of message/echomail users..
Running a point instead of being a user on a BBS eliminates all of the
art of a BBS and only provides the content. QWK lets you receive the
best of both worlds.
Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.
..The main use for my PCs is either to run the BBS
(although the BBS runs in a linode these days) or a terminal to access
the BBS. :)
It's the first time I hear of linode. Had to look it up
(www.linode.com?). So, it's a kinda your own linux-based pc operating in
the cloud?
On 04-05-19 17:54, Tony Langdon <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: topics.. let's hear <=-
On 04-05-19 01:15, Dale Shipp wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
My mobile device is a dumb phone that is rarely turned on. It lives in the glove box of my car. I only use it for emergencies, or to call
home to check on the grocery list.
That puts you in the minority these days. Just because you don't use
a smartphone, doesn't mean no one uses them.
On 04-05-19 00:52, Alan Ianson <=-
spoke to August Abolins about qwk and/or points <=-
I am favourable to offline mail. The difference between a
point and offline is that the point has the whole history
where with offline you are limited to what is in your
packet. I guess that works for some.
On 04-05-19 12:43, Mark Lewis <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about topics.. let's hear <=-
On 2019 Apr 05 01:18:10, you wrote to August Abolins:
Do you have an option to use the QWKE format? You wouldn't have
cut-off subject lines.
Nope. I don't think that Maximus has that option.
it probably doesn't... QWKE was brought to us by Pete Rocca in 1994...
On 04-05-19 19:59, August Abolins <=-
spoke to Alan Ianson about qwk and/or points <=-
The traditional QWK/REP method started to become laborious and
pressure mounted when I was anxious to get the next packet *before* I was finished reading and replying in the previous one.
But then... I discovered SemPoint (Windows). It could consolidate
all the QWK packet messages into an accumulating database.
On 04-05-19 20:41, August Abolins <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about what's after "old and fix <=-
Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.
Old and fixed -- I resemble that :-}}
Have you ever wondered "if only.." a certain aspect of what you are
doing could be improved somehow?
Not so true. The point can only keep so much of the message base before it overflows.
Do you have an option to use the QWKE format? You wouldn't have
cut-off subject lines.
Nope. I don't think that Maximus has that option.
it probably doesn't... QWKE was brought to us by Pete Rocca in 1994...
And if Maximus cannot produce a QWKE packet, then I cannot use it. I
am fully committed to my Maximus/Squish system.
mark lewis wrote to August Abolins <=-
I don't recall any piece-part issues with Frontdoor/APX. It seemed to be an all-in-one, if I remember correctly, as that is what I preconfigured on
diskette.
it was an all-in-one but it also arrived rather late to the game...
Dale Shipp wrote to August Abolins <=-
I'm not totally sure that explanation is completely true. Many users
in the USA would call a BBS, download a mail packet, and then read that mail packet offline. Seems to me that would take no more time than accessing via point software.
August Abolins wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-
Ah.. but the "art" of operating a point proggie like OpenXP can be
quite an experience. <g>
But then... I discovered SemPoint (Windows). It could consolidate all
the QWK packet messages into an accumulating database.
I seem to recall some software that would combine multiple QWK packets into one -- but it never interested me.
Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.
Just telling you that this point operates on an Android tablet which
moves with me worldwide, and those that know me know that I do get
around. Not a fixed location by any definition in the book.
Right now I'm on the Northsea on a sailyacht, enjoying..
Very mobile ... And the point system can also run from my phone without tablet.
Weren't you one of those harping about me rejecting change?
I meant that the "concept" or idea of points and nodes was originally based on the notion that our pcs have a consistent location. See the nodelist. The numbering system is restricted by the geo-specific
location of a "system".
And if Maximus cannot produce a QWKE packet, then I cannot use
it. I am fully committed to my Maximus/Squish system.
i understand that... my thinking was that the specs are available as is
the source code to maximus... my quick look over the QWKE specs seemed
to indicate that it is as easy an addition to make as they say it is... adding it to maximus could be very straight forward...
Ah.. but the "art" of operating a point proggie like OpenXP can be
quite an experience. <g>
I just googled it, looks interesting. Maybe I'll set up a point on my
linux laptop just for kicks...
On 04-05-19 20:15, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
If an IMAP-like solution could work with fidonet, what's the problem
with being "tied to the network"? I guess I don't catch your meaning.
The modern reality is we are highly mobile nowadays, and some of us do swap devices fery frequently, depending on needs at the time.
Maybe a mock demo would help describe your vision.
On 04-05-19 20:21, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
Isn't that akin to having a 12 cylinder engine in a sub-compact car?
On 04-05-19 20:30, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
Echomail was the main focus of my system. I added some Usenet and mailing lists later via GIGO on my point system.
Oh my.. that brings back a memory. I believe I used that too. I had a Waffle gateway to the usenet/internet.
Precisely. The whole automated proces is what sold me to the idea of enjoying messages. I hated tying up a phone line while navigating a
BBS manually. But, I loved the bidirectional Zmodem with chat. That
was too cool back in the day.
On 04-06-19 02:30, Dale Shipp wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
I am well aware of both of your statements. My point is that what
works for one person does not universally work for all.
On 04-06-19 08:50, Ward Dossche wrote to August Abolins <=-
Fidonet of the old is literally grounded on pcs in a fixed location.
No doubt, the "point" idea is the same - a fixed location.
Just telling you that this point operates on an Android tablet which
moves with me worldwide, and those that know me know that I do get
around. Not a fixed location by any definition in the book.
Just telling you that this point operates on an Android tablet which
moves with me worldwide, and those that know me know that I do get
around. Not a fixed location by any definition in the book.
The issue I have with that is ...travelling.
The best compromise so far is to use QWK, and use a netbook for
A voice-activated editor would be nice.
A voice-activated editor would be nice.
Progs to "type" while dictating have already been out for many years. You just have to buy them.
.. But there's already options that work well for those who used
desktop or laptop PCs as their primary or even only messaging device
- Can anyone say "point system? For me, that's a no brainer :) ).
But nothing really well suited to people who have multiple devices,
some PCs, some mobile.
The closest thing that works for me is using the nntp approach. I can
work with messages at either my desktop or laptop. Most of the time
those machines are never in the same location.
But the method lacks the ability to:
[1] save a reply-in-progress at one device, and resume with it at
another device before actually sending it off.
On 2019 Apr 07 19:45:16, you wrote to Ward Dossche:
; A voice-activated editor would be nice.
Progs to "type" while dictating have already been out for many
years. You just have to buy them.
Siri, Google and Alexa can already do this... they just need to be
interfaced with the editor and reader somehow...
you forget about the lastread pointers... news clients keep up with the lastread pointers themselves... not the BBS or news server...Ya.. the lastread pointer issue! For now, the volume of mail (in fidonet) is not too much of a bother to keep up with or see previously read messages. But I can certainly appreciate the matter.
so you have to manually sync the lastread pointers on each device...How do you do the manual syncing with Thunderbird nntp areas? Auto-syncing works with email/IMAP across clients, but the only thing marked "sync" for nntp
AA> [1] save a reply-in-progress at one device, and resume with it at
AA> another device before actually sending it off.
you can get this if the BBS offers the ability to save drafts... at
least one BBS that i know of does this now if the connection is lost
while writing a message... it only offers one draft, though, and you
have to continue it immediately when you reconnect...
A voice-activated editor would be nice.
Progs to "type" while dictating have already been out for many years. You just have to buy them.
August Abolins wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-
The editor might trip you up a bit. Example:
[o] how do you delete a block of text?
Windows version:
Hold down the <Shift> key, then mark the block of text by using the <Down-arrow> key. Press <Ctrl+K>Y to delete the block.
Hop on over to the POINTS echo and read about my journey with the oxp editor.
For me, BBS navigation overheads for QWK/Bluewave were insignificant.
Once I have a BBSs menu system in my head, and if it uses hotkeys, I
just send the hotkeys blindly, as soon as the screen starts to draw.
Time from login to initiating packet download was typically under 30
seconds, and most boards had a hangup after transfer option too. :)
On 04-06-19 13:20, Ward Dossche <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: qwk and/or points <=-
Not so true. The point can only keep so much of the message base before it overflows.
I can run a point under D'Bridge, have done so in the past,
and run full message bases without overflow.
On 04-06-19 12:41, Mark Lewis <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about topics.. let's hear <=-
And if Maximus cannot produce a QWKE packet, then I cannot use it. I
am fully committed to my Maximus/Squish system.
i understand that... my thinking was that the specs are available as
is the source code to maximus... my quick look over the QWKE specs seemed to indicate that it is as easy an addition to make
as they say it is... adding it to maximus could be very
straight forward...
And if Maximus cannot produce a QWKE packet, then I cannot use it. I
am fully committed to my Maximus/Squish system.
i understand that... my thinking was that the specs are available as
is the source code to maximus... my quick look over the QWKE specs
seemed to indicate that it is as easy an addition to make as they say
it is... adding it to maximus could be very straight forward...
But has anyone done that? If so, I'd like to know.
On 04-07-19 11:08, Ward Dossche wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
Just telling you that this point operates on an Android tablet which
moves with me worldwide, and those that know me know that I do get
around. Not a fixed location by any definition in the book.
Hey, I just nearly got hung from the highest tree by a know-it-all loudmouther for rejecting change as he saw the situation. 8-)
The issue I have with that is ...
The best compromise so far is to use QWK, and use a netbook for
travelling.
I run a Samsung tablet with Aftershock under Android. Works really
well.
Ward
--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
* Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
On 04-07-19 20:10, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
The closest thing that works for me is using the nntp approach. I can
work with messages at either my desktop or laptop. Most of the time
those machines are never in the same location.
But the method lacks the ability to:
[1] save a reply-in-progress at one device, and resume with it at
another device before actually sending it off.
[2] mark/tag messages for reply at one device, and see the same
mark/tag at another device.
On 04-08-19 00:46, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
Yes.. I used QWK method for quite a while (at first) too. It was a wonderful solution. Later, I added a Robocaller (I forget the official name) that would walk through the BBS's menus automatically with the hotkeys. If a sysop didn't change a particular menu order or the key,
it worked great!
Back to your current situation, why not carry a point/qwk setup on a thumbdrive or memory card and plug that in to the different PCs you
use?
Not sure how that would work on a smartphone device, but it probably doesn't matter since you would only use that for a quick check, and not
to write back. ?
I can run a point under D'Bridge, have done so in the past,
and run full message bases without overflow.
All messages for the past 20 years or so?
I run a Samsung tablet with Aftershock under Android. Works really TL>WD> well.
I don't doubt that, but what about synchronisation between that and any other devices (Pcs, etc?) Or is the tablet the only device you read your mail on?
* Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
On 04-08-19 14:36, Ward Dossche wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
I run a Samsung tablet with Aftershock under Android. Works really
well.
I don't doubt that, but what about synchronisation between that and any other devices (Pcs, etc?) Or is the tablet the only device you read your mail on?
* Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
It's a point, and points have no need to synchronize, they're totally stand-alone ... even on a tablet.
Yes.. I used QWK method for quite a while (at first) too. It was a
wonderful solution. Later, I added a Robocaller..
These days (under Linux) it's even easier:
wget ftp://username:password@my.bbs.com/BBSID.qwk
Back to your current situation, why not carry a point/qwk setup on a
thumbdrive or memory card and plug that in to the different PCs you
use?
It would have to be platform independent, I also run different OSs. On Windows now, netbook runs Linux (Lubuntu)
Not sure how that would work on a smartphone device, but it probably
doesn't matter since you would only use that for a quick check, and not AA>> to write back. ?
I would like to be able to have a decent mail session on a smartphone as well, but with a suitable mobile aware GUI interface, rather than trying
to fit fixed text mode onto a tiny screen.
The closest thing that works for me is using the nntp approach..
Prblem with NNTP is that all of its subscription and last read information is kept on the client side, so moving between devices becomes problematic.
On 04-08-19 19:35, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
That's beautiful. I was not aware of this. But unlike going manually
to the BBS, where the qwk file is created dynamically on the spot, with wget you only get the qwk that has been pre-packed by the server ahead
of time?
Your Multimail is multi-platform, no? So, you *could* have full installations on each of your devices, and use QWK with the
thumbdrive(?)
I assume you've tried the Aftershock and Hotdoged offerings, and they don't quite fit the bill.
On 04-08-19 19:43, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
Exactly. That's where the future in FUTURE4FIDO comes in. <g>
Maybe if Jamnntp could be enhanced with a sync-packet exchange during
the process, then it wouldn't matter on which device you're querying
the server. BUT, you would have to keep a copy of the sync-packet
with you or somewhere in the cloud.(?)
How many times do I have to say a POINT DOES NOT FIT!!!..
Maybe if Jamnntp could be enhanced with a sync-packet exchange during the process..
Would be nice if there was some way of storing that information on
the BBS and transferring it during initial NNTP connection. But the
NNTP reader would have to support downloading and transferring the
BBS configuration and state into the newsreader. In other words, I
can see this requiring the cooperation of all newsreader vendors,
something I don't see as practical for a niche application. Nice
thought though.
On 04-09-19 04:47, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
In a post between "Tony Langdon : August Abolins", on 4/8/2019 8:09 PM
How many times do I have to say a POINT DOES NOT FIT!!!..
Except for the cross-platform matter, carry your point system with you like you carry your qwk files?
On 04-09-19 04:54, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
Readers such as Thunderbird allow Add-ons. For example, I use a
special Add-on that builds the header "In a post between.." at the top.
I can customize that at will.
On 04-07-19 22:28, Mark Lewis <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about topics.. let's hear <=-
And if Maximus cannot produce a QWKE packet, then I cannot use it. I
am fully committed to my Maximus/Squish system.
i understand that... my thinking was that the specs are available as
is the source code to maximus... my quick look over the QWKE specs
seemed to indicate that it is as easy an addition to make as they say
it is... adding it to maximus could be very straight forward...
But has anyone done that? If so, I'd like to know.
i don't know... it is why i kinda pointed it out to you...
my thinking was with your past experience with QWK and
repairing the y2k flaw you might be able to add it
yourself...
but i don't know your programming capabilities...
i know mine are waning and i keep having to
dig into newer languages for so many things today...
These days (under Linux) it's even easier:
wget ftp://username:password@my.bbs.com/BBSID.qwk
That's beautiful. I was not aware of this. But unlike going manually
to the BBS, where the qwk file is created dynamically on the spot,
with wget you only get the qwk that has been pre-packed by the server ahead of time?
I would like to be able to have a decent mail session on a smartphone
as well, but with a suitable mobile aware GUI interface, rather than
trying to fit fixed text mode onto a tiny screen.
I assume you've tried the Aftershock and Hotdoged offerings, and they don't quite fit the bill.
The closest thing that works for me is using the nntp approach..
Prblem with NNTP is that all of its subscription and last read
information is kept on the client side, so moving between devices
becomes problematic.
Exactly. That's where the future in FUTURE4FIDO comes in. <g>
Maybe if Jamnntp could be enhanced with a sync-packet exchange during
the process, then it wouldn't matter on which device you're querying
the server. BUT, you would have to keep a copy of the sync-packet
with you or somewhere in the cloud.(?)
AA> Maybe if Jamnntp could be enhanced with a sync-packet exchange during
AA> the process, then it wouldn't matter on which device you're querying
AA> the server. BUT, you would have to keep a copy of the sync-packet
AA> with you or somewhere in the cloud.(?)
no news client does this so a custom news client would have to be
written and used... no more using t-bird or similar...
On 09/04/2019 12:37 p.m., mark lewis : August Abolins wrote:
AA> Maybe if Jamnntp could be enhanced with a sync-packet exchange
during
AA> the process, then it wouldn't matter on which device you're
querying
AA> the server. BUT, you would have to keep a copy of the
sync-packet
AA> with you or somewhere in the cloud.(?)
no news client does this so a custom news client would have to be
written and used... no more using t-bird or similar...
A t-bird Add-On that is programmable/configurable for specific servers wouldn't work?
..a custom news client would have to be
written and used... no more using t-bird or similar...
A t-bird Add-On that is programmable/configurable for specific servers wouldn't work?
i don't know... i refuse to use addons for t-bird and ff other than
noscript and adblock... why should we have to add an addon in the first place? that's the problem... i just don't trust them...
On 04-09-19 12:35, mark lewis wrote to August Abolins <=-
I assume you've tried the Aftershock and Hotdoged offerings, and they don't quite fit the bill.
they're still individual installations and don't share their data with other devices...
i don't know... i refuse to use addons for t-bird and ff other than
noscript and adblock... why should we have to add an addon in the first
place? that's the problem... i just don't trust them...
But addons are quite popular in fido: tic, nl update, freq, areafix, message processors, alternative message editors, etc. ;)
I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.
On 04-24-19 22:24, August Abolins wrote to Dale Shipp <=-
Hello Dale!
** 04.04.19 - 00:46, Dale Shipp wrote to Nil Alexandrov:
I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.
Have you heard of this:
DURQWK14.ZIP 1172K 09-09-1998
I found a copy from archives.thebbs.org, but I had a little trouble getting the setup.exe to cooperate. "not a wn32 program" error. Bad archive? Maybe the archive is listed somewhere else to try?
On 04-24-19 22:24, August Abolins <=-I have not heard of it.
spoke to Dale Shipp about topics.. let's hear <=-
I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.
Have you heard of this:
DURQWK14.ZIP 1172K 09-09-1998
DURANGOMAIL ver1.4 Build 204 - Updated 9/9/98 ---------------------------------------------
QWKE Offline mail reader for Win 95/98/NT/2K
Even if you don't have QWKE, this might still support QWK. But the
main benefit would be to be able to manage multiple QWKs at once.
I found a copy from archives.thebbs.org, but I had a little trouble getting the setup.exe to cooperate. "not a wn32 program" error. Bad archive? Maybe the archive is listed somewhere else to try?
DURQWK14.ZIP 1172K 09-09-1998
Interesting.
I found a copy from archives.thebbs.org, but I had a little trouble
getting the setup.exe to cooperate. "not a wn32 program" error. Bad
archive? Maybe the archive is listed somewhere else to try?
I'd say the installer is 16 bit, if you're trying to install it on a Win64 system. There were 16 bit installers around in those days.
I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK
packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.
Have you heard of this:
DURQWK14.ZIP 1172K 09-09-1998
DURANGOMAIL ver1.4 Build 204 - Updated 9/9/98
---------------------------------------------
QWKE Offline mail reader for Win 95/98/NT/2K
I have not heard of it.
No real advantage to me. I'll stick with my Bluewave that I know
well.
.. I had a little trouble
getting the setup.exe to cooperate. "not a wn32 program" error. Bad
archive? Maybe the archive is listed somewhere else to try?
More likely, it is a 16 bit program. It would need WINXP or so to
install.
On 04-26-19 22:46, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
I'd say the installer is 16 bit, if you're trying to install it on a Win64 system. There were 16 bit installers around in those days.
It could be a combination of something else too. Meanwhile, I tried
all the recommendations: running as admin, or trying another
compatibility mode in my WinXP. No go.
For some things fido, the future has stopped. :(
It could be a combination of something else too. Meanwhile, I tried all
the recommendations: running as admin, or trying another compatibility
mode in my WinXP. No go.
Bummer, that's weird. Do you have a Win 9x VM you can fire up?
On 04-27-19 00:29, August Abolins <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about qwk 25 char subj line lim <=-
Hello Dale!
On 4/26/2019, Dale Shipp wrote to August Abolins:
I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK
packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.
Noted.
But QWK's 25 char limit in the subject s cutting off my
beautifully thought out subjects! LOL
And yours seems to even cut them down further to about 20 chars. :(
Your subject line for something like:
FidoGazette Vol 13 no 17 Page: 7
FidoGazette Vol 13 no 17 Page: 6
FidoGazette Vol 13 no 17 Page: 5
..would look all the same in your lists:
FidoGazette Vol 13 no 17
I dunno how you can accept that! :/
On 04-27-19 18:47, August Abolins wrote to Tony Langdon <=-
Bummer, that's weird. Do you have a Win 9x VM you can fire up?
WinXP has W95 compatibility built in. I can't bother if I have to go dance around outside what WinXP can do. I suspect that the Durango
.exe is corrupted. Meanwhile, SemPoint 2.26 is 16bit and has no
problems on my XP at all.
There can be a future for *some* 16bit progs for a little while longer.
;)
I am using the same desktop I have had for years and read my QWK
packets using BlueWave in a virtual XP window. Don't intend to change.
Noted.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it:-}}
But QWK's 25 char limit in the subject s cutting off my
beautifully thought out subjects! LOL
In today's fido, not a lot of attention is paid to subject lines anyhow. They last forever, no matter what the subject is. Plus, in tonight's
QWK packet for this echo, every subject line except yours was well under
25 characters. I.e. most people are not bothered by the limitation.
I dunno how you can accept that! :/
I do not have a lot of choice. It is just one of those things that QWK users have to bear.
It's the first time I hear of linode. Had to look it up
(www.linode.com?). So, it's a kinda your own linux-based pc operating in the cloud?
I wish I could get SemPoint working again. I seem to remember having absolutley no trouble setting it up the first time many years ago. But now, it's complaining "unable to save message in Area" :(
Hello Tony!
** 05.04.19 - 17:53, Tony Langdon wrote to August Abolins:
Not so true. The point can only keep so much of the message base bef it overflows.I can run a point under D'Bridge, have done so in the past, and run full message bases without overflow.
Just telling you that this point operates on an Android tablet which
moves with me worldwide, and those that know me know that I do get
around. Not a fixed location by any definition in the book.
Hey, I just nearly got hung from the highest tree by a know-it-all loudmouther for rejecting change as he saw the situation. 8-)
The issue I have with that is ...
The best compromise so far is to use QWK, and use a netbook fortravelling.
I run a Samsung tablet with Aftershock under Android. Works really well.
Ward
.. But there's already options that work well for those who used
desktop or laptop PCs as their primary or even only messaging device
- Can anyone say "point system? For me, that's a no brainer :) ).
But nothing really well suited to people who have multiple devices,
some PCs, some mobile.
The closest thing that works for me is using the nntp approach. I can
work with
messages at either my desktop or laptop. Most of the time those machines are never in the same location.
But the method lacks the ability to:
[1] save a reply-in-progress at one device, and resume with it at
another device before actually sending it off.
[2] mark/tag messages for reply at one device, and see the same mark/tag at another device.
Is that the ability you wanted?
--From: Alan Ianson 1:153/757.2--
575.fido-future4f@1:153/757.2 246488f8
Re: qwk and/or points
By: August Abolins to Alan Ianson on Wed Jan 13 2021 12:19 pm
I wish I could get SemPoint working again. I seem to remember having absolutley no trouble setting it up the first time many years ago. But now, it's complaining "unable to save message in Area" :(
I'm not sure what could be going on with Sempoint. Another option is Golded. I have not used it a lot with QWK because I use MultiMail for QWK but Golded does have QWK support and will save messages in your message base.
Ttyl :-),
Al
... Love is grand. Divorce is fifty grand.
GoldED with QWK Support? That's interesting!
It's the first time I hear of linode. Had to look it up
(www.linode.com?). So, it's a kinda your own linux-based pc operating
in the cloud?
I don't actually have that linode anymore but it was a good
experiment.
I found at times it was sluggish to repond.
I think but am not certain
that was because a close by linode was using all the cpu resources
doing ???, whatever it was it was doing.
Then it would clear up and I
could happily continue on my way.
I may try something like that again some time.
I found at times it was sluggish to repond.
what plan did you use ?
I think but am not certain
that was because a close by linode was using all the cpu resources
playing dos games ?
doing ???, whatever it was it was doing.
you had root access, so you dont know ?
super, i would be in need to make husky ebuilds from github soon, current is the read only cvs :/
| Sysop: | Weed Hopper |
|---|---|
| Location: | Clearwater, FL |
| Users: | 12 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 16:59:05 |
| Calls: | 112 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 50,347 |
| D/L today: |
518 files (497M bytes) |
| Messages: | 296,795 |