I might be completely wrong, but don't THINK so.

I want to SELL a product.
One section of this product needs a *nix OS. Can I use any ole Linux distro as the OS, or do I need to focus on the nicer licensed FreeBSD or similar?

I want to SELL a product and need a *nix OS. What OS would you use?



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/11/23 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

Good ${greeting_time}, paul!

05 Jan 2021 17:24:30, you wrote to All:

I might be completely wrong, but don't THINK so.

You really are.

I want to SELL a product.

Yes, really.

One section of this product needs a *nix OS.

You have a choice: either open it or fail with it.

Can I use any ole Linux distro as the OS,

You may try, but that wouldn't work.

or do I need to focus on the nicer licensed FreeBSD or similar?

Who cares of licenses? Once it is out, it will be reversed and a hmmm... compatible software would fire up in a month. Or two.

I want to SELL a product and need a *nix OS. What OS would you use?

That doesn't work anymore. However, you still can offer a donation-backed support for adding the new features...


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)

Hi paul!

05 Jan 2021 17:24, from paul lee -> All:

I want to SELL a product.
One section of this product needs a *nix OS. Can I use any ole Linux distro as the OS, or do I need to focus on the nicer licensed FreeBSD
or similar?
I want to SELL a product and need a *nix OS. What OS would you use?

It depends on if you want to CHANGE the kernel.
If yes, you need to make those changes public if you are using the linux kernel. (GPLv2)

So in general you can use anything.
Just obey the licenses of those products.

CU, Ricsi

... The reason why I work so hard is because I'm too nervous to steal.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: My ATM just asked me if I want to go double or nothing! (2:310/31)

Re: *nix Licenses
By: paul lee to All on Tue Jan 05 2021 05:24 pm

I might be completely wrong, but don't THINK so.

I want to SELL a product.
One section of this product needs a *nix OS. Can I use any ole Linux distro the OS, or do I need to focus on the nicer licensed FreeBSD or similar?

I want to SELL a product and need a *nix OS. What OS would you use?

|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

It depends on what you want to do and how you want to distribute it.

Many appliances use a Linux firmware with propietary extensions and they do fine. Keep in mind that if you use modified components of Linux or its userland you may be required to release the source code.

You'd get helpful answers if you told us what the product is.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Hello Richard!

06 Jan 21 09:55, Richard Menedetter wrote to paul lee:

I want to SELL a product.
One section of this product needs a *nix OS. Can I use any ole Linux
distro as the OS, or do I need to focus on the nicer licensed FreeBSD
or similar?
I want to SELL a product and need a *nix OS. What OS would you use?

It depends on if you want to CHANGE the kernel.
If yes, you need to make those changes public if you are using the
linux kernel. (GPLv2)

So in general you can use anything.
Just obey the licenses of those products.

Just take care that this covers the kernel only. Your casual Linux distribution will come with many more pieces of software aboard, each of it bringing in its own licence.


Regards,
Gerrit

... 11:50AM up 77 days, 22:51, 8 users, load averages: 0.16, 0.20, 0.22

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: America asleep, since Mulberry's too long (2:240/12)

Hello paul!

05 Jan 21, paul lee wrote to All:

I want to SELL a product.
One section of this product needs a *nix OS. Can I use any ole Linux distro as the OS, or do I need to focus on the nicer licensed FreeBSD
or similar?

No. You want to sell your product. You do not want to sell the *nix OS.

What kind of *nix OS is to be used is completly part of your customers responsibility.

I want to SELL a product and need a *nix OS. What OS would you use?

You don't have to care. Your products requirement is a *nix OS so it does run with any *nix OS. So if it does not run with Tom's rtbt or any version of the *nixes found on distrowatch.com it's a warranty case and you need to fix your product.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

On 06 Jan 21 06:04:00, Alexey Vissarionov said the following to Paul Lee:

I might be completely wrong, but don't THINK so.

You really are.

You must be really fun at dinner parties.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

You'd get helpful answers if you told us what the product is.

Thanks... some of the responses here were just attacks, or I didn't understand their replies.

I do a bunch of projects marrying antiques with current tech. I refurbish old record-player consoles into current hi-fi equipment. I either use the original amplifier, or a current Tube-amp and marry it with a raspberry pi and some open-source software (rpi-fruibox) that I have the license to distribute.

I just wonder about using the underlying Linux OS. Am I allowed? I guess I need to pass the license to my lawyer, which sucks because... $100 for an hour.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/05 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

Re: Re: *nix Licenses
By: paul lee to Richard Falken on Wed Jan 06 2021 08:18 pm

You'd get helpful answers if you told us what the product is.

Thanks... some of the responses here were just attacks, or I didn't understa their replies.

I do a bunch of projects marrying antiques with current tech. I refurbish ol record-player consoles into current hi-fi equipment. I either use the origin amplifier, or a current Tube-amp and marry it with a raspberry pi and some open-source software (rpi-fruibox) that I have the license to distribute.

I just wonder about using the underlying Linux OS. Am I allowed? I guess I n to pass the license to my lawyer, which sucks because... $100 for an hour.

|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

Ok, so you plan to sell an appliance and need a firmware for it.

Long story short:

If your appliances use modified Linux or GNU components, you must release the source code. This is: if your appliance uses a modified kernel, a custom patched version of bash or whatever, you must release the source code of that component. Since your business model is selling hardware, this should be no big deal anyway.

If you appliance uses unmodified Linux / GNU components, then you need not to worry. You may incorporate propietary extensions to your firmware - say, a propietary GUI - without releasing the code, as long as your extensions don't represent a modification of GPL licensed components. ie: you can distribute a bash script under a propietary license as long as you don't modify bash itself .

Beware many Linux distributions include non-free components, so you'll have to strip those out if you want to redistribute them.

You can still release the source code of your firmware and have a successful product.- The Linksys that paved the way for the creation of OpenVRT come to mind.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

I do a bunch of projects marrying antiques with current tech. I refurbish old r
cord-player consoles into current hi-fi equipment. I either use the original am
lifier, or a current Tube-amp and marry it with a raspberry pi and some open-so
rce software (rpi-fruibox) that I have the license to distribute.

I just wonder about using the underlying Linux OS. Am I allowed? I guess I need
to pass the license to my lawyer, which sucks because... $100 for an hour.

That might be safest but, if you are not modifying the linux os, you might
be ok, especially if you are not selling the OS just whatever antique it happens to reside in. I.e. like you are giving away a free copy of the OS.


* SLMR 2.1a * Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Hello, paul lee.
On 06.01.21 20:18 you wrote:

Thanks... some of the responses here were just attacks, or I
didn't understand their replies.

Alexey Vissarionov is just a Russian troll, one shouldn't be bothered.

--
Regards,
gopher://io.bebyx.co.ua
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

Hello paul!

06 Jan 21, paul lee wrote to Richard Falken:

Thanks... some of the responses here were just attacks, or I didn't understand their replies.

The last one it is. You need someone explaining what kind of question you're asking for.

with a raspberry pi and some open-source software (rpi-fruibox)

This is a completly different question than before.

I just wonder about using the underlying Linux OS. Am I allowed?

I guess I need to pass the license to my lawyer, which sucks
because... $100 for an hour.

Cheap, compared to the law suit due to licence violation.

You should check the FreeBSD licence first. But i still recommend to seperate the rpi OS and put it into the hands of your customers.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello Richard!

07 Jan 21, Richard Falken wrote to paul lee:

Since your business model is selling hardware, this should be no big
deal anyway.

If the hardware comes with pre-installed GPL software it is a big deal.

If you appliance uses unmodified Linux / GNU components, then you
need not to worry.

Are you sure? From my point of view the GPL is a point to point license.

If you install a GPLed Linux on your hardware and sell it to me, then we both have a contract. If you sold me the binary of an GPLed Linux then i can request the source from you because you are the distributor.

We both may agree that i would download it from a repo server somewhere on the web but i don't have to. Let's say i'm on a limited cellphone bandwith and claim this part of the GPL:

"For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether
gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same
freedoms that you received.
*You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code*."

So if i tell you it does not work, then it is still your responsibility to find a way that will work for me.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello Mike!

07 Jan 21, Mike Powell wrote to PAUL LEE:

might be ok, especially if you are not selling the OS just whatever antique it happens to reside in. I.e. like you are giving away a free copy of the OS.

There is no difference between selling or giving of the programm (=compiled running code) in the GPL. No matter if you sell or give - you are responsible for delivering the source code. That's your duty.

This had been forgotten because common end users like on Ubuntu would install from a binary media and if someone needs the source code he would fetch it directly from Ubuntu Servers. But for those 3rd party requests Ubuntu could say "We did not gave you any GPLed software so we are not responsible to give you source code".

The main protection element of the GPL is the availibility of the source code.

But with an "if". I do not understand why it's called "public"; there is no enforcement to give a any modified code back into public. But if you give anything to others then it's part of the licence that you have to include the source code.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Re: *nix Licenses
By: Kai Richter to Richard Falken on Thu Jan 07 2021 07:28 pm

We both may agree that i would download it from a repo server somewhere on t web but i don't have to. Let's say i'm on a limited cellphone bandwith and claim this part of the GPL:

"For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether
gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same
freedoms that you received.
*You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code*."

So if i tell you it does not work, then it is still your responsibility to f a way that will work for me.

Regards

Kai

Agreed, but I don't think it is a big deal still.

I mean, you don't even need to have the source code publicly available. If one of your customers wants it enough to phone you in for it, you just send him a copy somehow. The only thing you need to do is to have the source code provisioned in your own facilities if you don't trust upstream to keep repositories available undefinitedly.

Relatedly, this is one of the reasons why I like Slackware. The source code comes with the DVD.

Just in case I made it not clear, what I meant is that it is not a big deal in the sense that it does not affect your business model much. If you sell hardware appliances then having to opensource the software you are running is unlikely to make you sell less machines, in a significative number at least.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

-={ 2021-01-08 17:53:05.796622106+00:00 }=-

Hey Richard!

Relatedly, this is one of the reasons why I like Slackware. The
source code comes with the DVD.

Also available online at many (all?) of the mirror sites with scripts, patches, etc. for each pkg. As far as I am aware nobody tops Slackware for this very reason except 'Linux From Scratch' which isn't exactly a distribution as such.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)

Hello paul!

08 Jan 21, bebyx wrote to paul lee:

Alexey Vissarionov is just a Russian troll, one shouldn't be bothered.

Said the one without knowledge of Fidonets common practice to use realnames. (Or at least something that looks like a real name.)

You may like it or not, from my point of view Alexey is right in all his comments to your question. The raspberry pi was build for makers. The GPL does protect knowledge transfer if code is shared with others. Both is aiming to the "do it yourself" people.

I still recommend a way that will keep yourself out of the OS distribution.

An installer that will fetch all required files from the net would transfer the contract of getting software from you to the official distributor.

The other option is that you include the source of the OS on first delivery by including a CD/DVD/BD.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello Richard!

08 Jan 21, Richard Falken wrote to Kai Richter:

So if i tell you it does not work, then it is still your
responsibility to f a way that will work for me.

Agreed, but I don't think it is a big deal still.

I mean, you don't even need to have the source code publicly
available. If one of your customers wants it enough to phone you in
for it, you just send him a copy somehow. The only thing you need to
do is to have the source code provisioned in your own facilities if
you don't trust upstream to keep repositories available undefinitedly.

Yes. But we are talking about business. In other words you have to be prepared.

Just in case I made it not clear, what I meant is that it is not a
big deal in the sense that it does not affect your business model
much.

If you are not prepared your competitor can take advantage of that and the cost of the lawsuit could ruin your business. For a business that don't want to spend some 100red bucks to a lawyer a lawsuits will be a big neckbreaking deal.

If you sell hardware appliances then having to opensource the
software you are running is unlikely to make you sell less machines,
in a significative number at least.

He wants to use third party software. I didn't find a license for that fuitbox stuff he wants to use but i did not dig deep. If it's a selfmade licence then you need to go into details for a forecast of the adverse effects.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Re: *nix Licenses
By: Maurice Kinal to Richard Falken on Fri Jan 08 2021 05:53 pm

-={ 2021-01-08 17:53:05.796622106+00:00 }=-

Hey Richard!

Relatedly, this is one of the reasons why I like Slackware. The
source code comes with the DVD.

Also available online at many (all?) of the mirror sites with scripts, patch etc. for each pkg. As far as I am aware nobody tops Slackware for this very reason except 'Linux From Scratch' which isn't exactly a distribution as suc

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.

Arya Linux also comes with its source code bundled in the DVD. But then, Arya Linux is a straight build of Linux From Scratch.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

-={ 2021-01-08 23:45:39.520823666+00:00 }=-

Hey Richard!

Arya Linux also comes with its source code bundled in the DVD.
But then, Arya Linux is a straight build of Linux From Scratch.

This is new to me. I'll have to check it out. I recall years ago there was a live cd thingy for 'Linux From Scratch' but I am not sure they still have such a critter available anymore. For sure good stuff given that the OS I am replying to you is definetly heavily LFS influenced although with a healthy touch of Slackware and some other influences. It also isn't a distribution as such but I do have custom build scripts for it (bash of course).

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)

Hello, Kai Richter.
On 08.01.21 14:38 you wrote:

Said the one without knowledge of Fidonets common practice to use realnames. (Or at least something that looks like a real name.)

I know this tradition, but who cares. I'm here for communication, not for dead traditions.

And if you want to know my real name, you can simply visit my gopherspace.

--
Regards,
gopher://io.bebyx.co.ua
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

Hello bebyx!

09 Jan 21, bebyx wrote to Kai Richter:

Said the one without knowledge of Fidonets common practice to use
realnames. (Or at least something that looks like a real
name.)

I know this tradition, but who cares.

Well, Tony Langdorn does since 2016 (Funny, the next mail after yours is from him). I'm new to this echoarea and so i can review until 2014 only. There are five writers without realnames with each less than a dozen mails. Compared to all remaining 2900 mails i'd like to say we all do care.

I'm here for communication, not for dead traditions.

Lol! That was a good one. Well, i'm sure all oldscool insiders are smiling now, or more. I need to explain. You did not communicate why Alexey was wrong. The only thing you did was bashing in good ol' fight'o'net tradition.

Don't get me wrong - i'm happy that that old fidonet fighting tradition is dead. It's up to you how you would like to display yourself in the public (and i'm talking about the content of your mail now, not the missing realname).

I don't know Alexey and maybe you are right. But good communication is based on arguments. And tradition is the only thing that keeps fidonet alive.

Many nodes are running because their setup is done and the system is still powered. Our latest loss of a node system was because of a fire in the street; resulting into a long time power fail and a PC power supply unit that rejected to start again. It's an un-common PSU and an IBM OS that is difficult to transfer to latest hardware. The system is down for two month now and i don't think it will come back.

There is no reason but tradition to keep outdated protocols up and running. If you are searching for communication you should go forward to latest technology.

And if you want to know my real name, you can simply visit my
gopherspace.

No, i don't get trolled that easily. It's still your boss who is responsible for you and failed to perform a good fidonet introduction or granted you access without realname. That's why i don't have a problem with you even if i don't like the missing realname or bashing without arguments. There is a chance that you could do better, you already did with your help with dosbox.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

You should check the FreeBSD licence first. But i still recommend to seperatethe rpi OS and put it into the hands of your customers.

Regards

Kai

Thats what I had figured, Kai... using FreeBSD and the open source (no license) frontend (rpi-fruitbox) that i had in mind. Alternatively, I can just give customers the hardware and make them 'get' their own software... thru a download on the company webpage of course.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/05 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

Hello paul!

08 Jan 21, paul lee wrote to Kai Richter:

using FreeBSD and the open source (no license)

Two open points on the checklist. BSD is sometimes different than Linux. You should dig deeper what the real requirement for *nix OS is and if FreeBSD can fulfill it.

Open Source without licence means there is no written contract and the common consequence is that standard local law will apply. In some countries law there does not exist a software definition for "open source" or "public domain".

To be honest i have no idea if there is a github "default" license that applies to software without own licence automatically. If your plan is to go international then you should re-think about useing a known or creating an own licence.

I can just give customers the hardware and make them 'get' their own software...

This would keep your business out of the line of licence fire.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello, Kai Richter.
On 09.01.21 14:34 you wrote:

i'd like to say we all do care.

No one cares except for you. It's only you who mentioned real name tradition as some kind of ridiculous shaming.

And your whole post is offtopic, I don't want to continue this. I either speak about GNU/Linux or prefer to stay silent.

--
Regards,
gopher://io.bebyx.co.ua
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

On 01-09-21 14:34, Kai Richter wrote to bebyx <=-

Well, Tony Langdorn does since 2016 (Funny, the next mail after yours
is from him). I'm new to this echoarea and so i can review until 2014 only. There are five writers without realnames with each less than a
dozen mails. Compared to all remaining 2900 mails i'd like to say we
all do care.

Well since 1991 actually, but I did have a break from BBSing between around 2000 and 2016. :) Many Fidonet echos still have a "real names" policy, though, and for me it's easier just to make that a Fidonet default. Other nets, I allow aliases, since the othernets generally don't force real names (or something that looks like one).

Many nodes are running because their setup is done and the system is
still powered. Our latest loss of a node system was because of a fire
in the street; resulting into a long time power fail and a PC power
supply unit that rejected to start again. It's an un-common PSU and an
IBM OS that is difficult to transfer to latest hardware. The system is down for two month now and i don't think it will come back.

I'm one running modern software (Synchronet) on modern hardware (Banana Pi) under a modern OS (Linux). :) Have to do the 6 monthly SD card replacement (preventative maintenance). Went to buy one last week, but the store was overrun with people and I didn't have a spare half an hour to wait in the queue, not to mention the extra time to find the SD cards, because they've rearranged the store.

There is no reason but tradition to keep outdated protocols up and running. If you are searching for communication you should go forward
to latest technology.

Though these outdted protocols do seem to encourage relatively high quality messaging (with the exception of a few notorious echos ;) ).


... Smile if you're not wearing any underwear.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

Hello paul!

08 Jan 21 20:50, paul lee wrote to Kai Richter:

Alternatively, I can just give customers the hardware and make them
'get' their own software... thru a download on the company webpage of course.

You might also want to check in how far you might be held liable for the functioning of the software you distribute (either separate from or in combination with your hardware product). Depending on your local laws you might also be required to offer support/updates for this software for a certain period after sales.


Regards,
Gerrit

... 10:37AM up 81 days, 21:38, 8 users, load averages: 0.18, 0.25, 0.24

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: Dry thoughts for the tenant (2:240/12)

Hi bebyx!

10 Jan 2021 10:57, from bebyx -> Kai Richter:

i'd like to say we all do care.

No one cares except for you.

That is definitely NOT true.
As at least I do care, too!

CU, Ricsi

... When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane!
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The magic of Windows: Turns a 686 into an XT! (2:310/31)

Hello, Tony Langdon.
On 10.01.21 18:46 you wrote:

Though these outdted protocols do seem to encourage relatively
high quality messaging (with the exception of a few notorious
echos ;) ).

That's why I'm still here. It's interesting to talk with you guys, not following some traditions.

The nickname wasn't forced to be «real» in this echo, so I took the techie one I'm more convenient with. Everything's allowed if it's not forbidden.

Moreover, my reaction to Vissarionov's trolling is first of all a reaction to that low-quality message (arrogant tone, foggy notions, humbugging).

--
Regards,
gopher://io.bebyx.co.ua
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

Hello, Richard Menedetter.
On 10.01.21 11:01 you wrote:

That is definitely NOT true. As at least I do care, too!

As far as I see, you do care to the degree when you don't start shaming newcomers suddenly.

No one cared when I started messaging here. Until Kai decided to flame.

--
Regards,
gopher://io.bebyx.co.ua
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

Hi bebyx,

On 2021-01-10 10:57:10, you wrote to Kai Richter:

i'd like to say we all do care.

No one cares except for you.

I care! Please use your real name in fidonet.


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello *!

10 Jan 21 12:30, bebyx wrote to Richard Menedetter:

No one cared when I started messaging here. Until Kai decided to
flame.

The main rules for FidoNet:

* Thou shalt not excessively annoy others.
* Thou shalt not be too easily annoyed.


Please always consider both.


Regards,
Gerrit

... 11:41AM up 81 days, 22:42, 8 users, load averages: 0.23, 0.20, 0.24

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: All carefully conceived (2:240/12)

Hi bebyx!

10 Jan 2021 12:30, from bebyx -> Richard Menedetter:

That is definitely NOT true. As at least I do care, too!

As far as I see, you do care to the degree when you don't start
shaming newcomers suddenly.

Yes ... it is not annoying enough for me to write a netmail just to tell you to use real names.

But I still consider it as very impolite, and I also noticed that you did NOT yet change the setting so that you send your real name.

No one cared when I started messaging here.

I cared, but not enough to write you an mail about it.

Until Kai decided to flame.

I did not see a flame from Kais side.
He correctly pointed out your lack of real name.
That is no flame, but a fact.
The fact is still true BTW!

So I would highly appreciate if you change your config in fido areas to use your real name, and then let us continue to discuss linux related topics in this area.

CU, Ricsi

... Before you find your handsome prince, you've got to kiss a lot of frogs. --- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Bury me at Wal-mart so my wife will come visit me. (2:310/31)

Hello Wilfred!

10 Jan 21 12:27, you wrote to bebyx:

Hi bebyx,

No one cares except for you.

I care!

#metoo

Karel

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Plast DATA (2:423/39)

Hello paul!

Friday January 08 2021 20:50, you wrote to Kai Richter:

You should check the FreeBSD licence first. But i still recommend
to seperatethe rpi OS and put it into the hands of your
customers.

Regards

Kai

Thats what I had figured, Kai... using FreeBSD and the open source (no license) frontend (rpi-fruitbox) that i had in mind. Alternatively, I
can just give customers the hardware and make them 'get' their own software... thru a download on the company webpage of course.

Small suggestion - look at any hardware you own that uses Linux or Android as the base os such as a smart TV or a phone.

Now the manufacturer has to supply the source code on request and as I have a Samsung (S10 phone) and a Philips TV I went to their sites and downloaded the sources.


Admittedly it took a bit of effort to find but I did.


So, providing you stick to the copyright rules for Open Source systems you will
not go wrong and you do not need to supply the source code with the product but
have a findable area on your support website that allows users to download it.

This aoolies to any code changes you made to original code for any application,
driver, system module etc.

The likely hood of many wanting such is very low but it allows a interested party (may be a copyright holder) to check that you are complying with the said
notices.


Vincent

--- Mageia Linux v7.1 X64/Mbse v1.0.7.17/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)

Hello Tony!

10 Jan 21, Tony Langdon wrote to Kai Richter:

I'm one running modern software (Synchronet) on modern hardware
(Banana Pi) under a modern OS (Linux). :)

In the 486 aera i was on OS/2 until P1/133, then i had an easy migration to Debian. I used squish/2 before and it was easy to transfer the config to hpt.

Have to do the 6 monthly SD card replacement (preventative
maintenance).

Good decision. I had three USB sticks that died without any warning. My node system used LVM to bundle several disks into one volume. I bought a new disc every year until i had 4 of them ready for raid. The main advantage of non-raid LVM is the ability to merge all disks into a big one and reduce the size of the volume group to remove a disk.

I still have the idea to plug two dual sd-card readers (SD + micro-SD) into the pi and build a raid on four sd-cards or sd-card/usbstick combinations. But i don't know what performance the pi would do with that. It could be a way to get the most "wear" out of the sd or sticks.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello bebyx!

10 Jan 21, bebyx wrote to Richard Menedetter:

That is definitely NOT true. As at least I do care, too!

As far as I see, you do care to the degree when you don't start
shaming newcomers suddenly.

Which is an expression of tolerance but not on argreement. For the same reason i did not contact you and as you may noticed i never asked you to use a realname.

This is because i've learned to follow fidonet policy 4.07 on chapter uhh, i'm getting old...

$ find . -iname "*pol*"
./BOXINFO/policy/policy5.asc
./BOXINFO/policy/echopol1.dfu
./BOXINFO/policy/POLICY4.TXT

$ grep -B 6 easily ./BOXINFO/policy/POLICY4.TXT
9.1 General

The FidoNet judicial philosophy can be summed up in two rules:

1) Thou shalt not excessively annoy others.

2) Thou shalt not be too easily annoyed.

No one cared when I started messaging here.

so it's chapter 9.1 rule #2.

Until Kai decided to flame.

Review your mail to paul about Alexey and imagine that someone wrote that about you. Jump into the mirror and try to see your mail from the to: side.

I decided to support paul to find his own decision. I took his point of professional busniess view where licence b2b war could be a problem while you're wiping Alexey away with "don't listen, he's a troll".

Yes, maybe i wasn't nice, but when the translation is correct i would say "what goes around, comes around". The german phrase is "how you shout into the forest, so the echo is".

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello Vincent!

10 Jan 21, Vincent Coen wrote to paul lee:

Small suggestion - look at any hardware you own that uses Linux or
Android as the base os such as a smart TV or a phone.

Wow, thanks for that one. Unbelievable but true, my LG TV does list many *nix tools. I stopped counting at 100 and as for the movement of the left scrollbar there would be approx. 400 packages listed with their licences.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello Kai!

Sunday January 10 2021 16:08, you wrote to Tony Langdon:

Hello Tony!

10 Jan 21, Tony Langdon wrote to Kai Richter:

I'm one running modern software (Synchronet) on modern hardware
(Banana Pi) under a modern OS (Linux). :)

In the 486 aera i was on OS/2 until P1/133, then i had an easy
migration to Debian. I used squish/2 before and it was easy to
transfer the config to hpt.

Have to do the 6 monthly SD card replacement (preventative
maintenance).

Good decision. I had three USB sticks that died without any warning.
My node system used LVM to bundle several disks into one volume. I
bought a new disc every year until i had 4 of them ready for raid. The
main advantage of non-raid LVM is the ability to merge all disks into
a big one and reduce the size of the volume group to remove a disk.

I still have the idea to plug two dual sd-card readers (SD + micro-SD)
into the pi and build a raid on four sd-cards or sd-card/usbstick combinations. But i don't know what performance the pi would do with
that. It could be a way to get the most "wear" out of the sd or
sticks.

Got around such a problem as well as speed issues by buying some extra kit to allow a sata HDD to act in place of a SD card from boot.

It is a lot quicker but as the HDD passes data through one of the Pi's data port it is not as quick as via a sata 3 port but it is a lot more reliable.

Vincent

--- Mageia Linux v7.1 X64/Mbse v1.0.7.17/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)

Hello Karel!

10 Jan 2021 16:00, Karel Kral wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

Hi bebyx,

No one cares except for you.

I care!

#metoo

#wecare


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.10.6-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

Good ${greeting_time}, Benny!

12 Jan 2021 14:14:42, you wrote to Karel Kral:

No one cares except for you.

I care!

#metoo

#wecare

gafometer.png


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)

Hello, Richard Menedetter.
On 10.01.21 13:24 you wrote:

But I still consider it as very impolite, and I also noticed that
you did NOT yet change the setting so that you send your real
name.

And I won't do it. I better leave Fidonet than follow idiotic traditions. Deal with it.


--
Regards,
gopher://io.bebyx.co.ua
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

Hello, Kai Richter.
On 10.01.21 17:02 you wrote:

while you're wiping Alexey away with "don't listen, he's a
troll".

Sorry, I just don't like traditional Russian arrogance and foggy nonsense. If you like or tolerate such things — bad for you. That kills the quality conversation.


--
Regards,
gopher://io.bebyx.co.ua
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

bebyx wrote to Richard Menedetter <=-

But I still consider it as very impolite, and I also noticed that
you did NOT yet change the setting so that you send your real
name.

And I won't do it. I better leave Fidonet than follow idiotic
traditions. Deal with it.

Jackass troll.



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Re: *nix Licenses
By: bebyx to Richard Menedetter on Tue Jan 12 2021 06:32 pm

And I won't do it. I better leave Fidonet than follow idiotic traditions. Deal with it.

There actually is no real name rule in fidonet generally, some echoes do make a rule of it but I don't see a rule like that in the monthly rules posting in this area.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

Hi bebyx!

12 Jan 2021 18:32, from bebyx -> Richard Menedetter:

I better leave Fidonet than follow idiotic traditions. Deal with it.

Nothing to deal with, really ;)
I wave you goodbye, and issue is closed for me.

CU, Ricsi

... He recently graduated from the McDonald's Fine Food Academy.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The squirrel was driving itself nuts. (2:310/31)

Hello bebyx!

12 Jan 21, bebyx wrote to Kai Richter:

while you're wiping Alexey away with "don't listen, he's a
troll".

Sorry, I just don't like traditional Russian arrogance and foggy
nonsense.

Sorry that i continue offtopic. You're right, i could agree with the foggy argument. The first one is difficult to catch for me. Maybe it's especially very hard for me to read "between the lines" and apply a correct emotional attitude level to it. That's why i try to stay away from pre-justice, even if i heard that there is something going on between ua and ru.

If you like or tolerate such things — bad for you

I don't have to like it if i apply 9.1 rule #2.

That kills the quality conversation.

Let's have a look. Two ways to go. One way invisible because of fog. One clear way. We don't know which one leads to the correct destination. You said "i don't like fog, the clear way must be the right one." I prefer to peek through the fog first and try to see if that is the right way. This time the foggy way was right. But that's not the fault of the fog.

If you really think that your method would lead into more quality please explain why. From my point of view ignorance lead into no
conversation.
conservation. <- funny. I never noticed that before.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello unknown!

12 Jan 2021 18:32, bebyx wrote to Richard Menedetter:

And I won't do it. I better leave Fidonet than follow idiotic
traditions. Deal with it.

what ?


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.10.6-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

-={ 2021-01-12 22:24:32.608949485+00:00 }=-

Hey Benny!

Deal with it.

what ?

I think "huh ?" is more appropriate in this case.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

And I won't do it. I better leave Fidonet than follow idiotic traditions. Deal >ith it.

You could always make up a name that sounds real.

Mike


* SLMR 2.1a * 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

On 01-10-21 12:08, bebyx wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

Though these outdted protocols do seem to encourage relatively
high quality messaging (with the exception of a few notorious
echos ;) ).

That's why I'm still here. It's interesting to talk with you guys, not following some traditions.

Or doing a bit of both. ;)

The nickname wasn't forced to be ®real¯ in this echo, so I took the
techie one I'm more convenient with. Everything's allowed if it's not forbidden.

Yeah, I don't recall the rules for this echo, but if the name settings are wrong, that's your sysop's fault. I set Fidonet echos to real names, I can always change the settings, for echos that allow aliases. :)

But that said, incorrect settings don't help users. ;)


... Die, my dear doctor? That's the last thing I shall do.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

On 01-10-21 16:08, Kai Richter wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

In the 486 aera i was on OS/2 until P1/133, then i had an easy
migration to Debian. I used squish/2 before and it was easy to transfer the config to hpt.

I was on OS/2 until an early Pentium, and then moved to Windows NE.

Have to do the 6 monthly SD card replacement (preventative
maintenance).

Good decision. I had three USB sticks that died without any warning. My node system used LVM to bundle several disks into one volume. I bought
a new disc every year until i had 4 of them ready for raid. The main advantage of non-raid LVM is the ability to merge all disks into a big
one and reduce the size of the volume group to remove a disk.

Yeah I've had a SD card die on me.


... Love is like war: easy to begin, but very hard to stop.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

On 01-12-21 19:05, Mike Powell wrote to BEBYX <=-

And I won't do it. I better leave Fidonet than follow idiotic traditions.

eal

ith it.

You could always make up a name that sounds real.

Been there, done that. :)


... Fools and their money become popular quickly.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

Hello Maurice!

12 Jan 2021 22:24, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

Deal with it.

what ?

I think "huh ?" is more appropriate in this case.

or pi with 1000 digest, people are clever


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.10.6-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

Hello Mike!

12 Jan 2021 19:05, Mike Powell wrote to BEBYX:

And I won't do it. I better leave Fidonet than follow idiotic traditions.
Deal ith it.

You could always make up a name that sounds real.

one that looks nice in the unix licenses


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.10.6-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

-={ 2021-01-13 19:29:52.957038680+00:00 }=-

Hey Benny!

people are clever

Says who ?

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

13 Jan 2021 19:29, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

people are clever

Says who ?

free wifi, just type pi with 1000 digest :)


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.10.7-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

-={ 2021-01-14 05:04:03.982359499+00:00 }=-

Hey Benny!

people are clever

Says who ?

free wifi, just type pi with 1000 digest :)

That doesn't work no matter how clever or not as the case may be.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

14 Jan 2021 05:04, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

people are clever

Says who ?

free wifi, just type pi with 1000 digest :)

That doesn't work no matter how clever or not as the case may be.

i have been to much on tictok, and i have still parler installed :)

lets hope thay will be back


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.10.7-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

-={ 2021-01-14 23:06:40.707436105+00:00 }=-

Hey Benny!

i have been to much on tictok, and i have still parler installed

I have heard of tictok but not parler. Neither of them (nor facebook, twitter, etc) work on anything I have but I am sure some of my neighbours use at least facebook.

I have a 10" tablet I use for testing connections but it seldom gets used for actually hooking up to anything on the internet. I do have binkd I installed on there but even that only connects to one of the wireless hosts to drop off msgs. It could hook up over the internet I suppose but it doesn't. What for?

lets hope thay will be back

Where did they go?

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hi Maurice,

On 2021-01-14 23:06:40, you wrote to Benny Pedersen:

i have been to much on tictok, and i have still parler installed

I have heard of tictok but not parler. Neither of them (nor facebook, twitter, etc) work on anything I have

You don't have a (graphical) web browser on any of your devices?

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

-={ 2021-01-15 18:20:48.728789583+00:00 }=-

Hey Wilfred!

You don't have a (graphical) web browser on any of your
devices?

Yes except it seldom gets used as I personally find these devices too annoying and lacking in anything I would use on a daily basis. I am replying to you using it as we speak. I prefer using a regular PC with the linux terminal. On them I just use a text based browser. :-)

Life is good,
Maurice

... Scearp scyldwiga [sceal] gescad witan worda ond worca.
A sharp warrior must know the difference between words and deeds.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.0(1)-release (aarch64-unknown-linux-android)
* Origin: Little Mikey's ARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.4013)

Hi Maurice,

On 2021-01-15 18:20:48, you wrote to me:

I have heard of tictok but not parler. Neither of them (nor
facebook, twitter, etc) work on anything I have

You don't have a (graphical) web browser on any of your
devices?

Yes except it seldom gets used as I personally find these devices too annoying and lacking in anything I would use on a daily basis.

So your statement above was false...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

-={ 2021-01-15 22:28:04.677034650+00:00 }=-

Hey Wilfred!

So your statement above was false...

No it wasn't. Just because there is a GUI browser doesn't mean that there are accounts to access whatever uses the browser to connect. Also no icons available for those services that I've ever seen on the tablet in question.

It does have termux and a customized binkd for it that *could* connect to a node out there in cybersapce but it doesn't. It just uses the wireless access points that are set up for fidonet, the one in particular sent the previous reply. This reply is being created on the access point itself where "Little Mikey's Brain" resides and it has a nodelisted internet address. No GUI browser on here.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hi Maurice,

On 2021-01-15 22:28:04, you wrote to me:

So your statement above was false...

No it wasn't. Just because there is a GUI browser doesn't mean that there are accounts to access whatever uses the browser to connect. Also no icons
available for those services that I've ever seen on the tablet in question.

Yes it was. You have a gui browser at your disposal, so you could connect to facebook (and others) if you wanted to. There are no technical bariers...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred!

16 Jan 21, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Maurice Kinal:

Neither of them

[...]

work on anything I have

So your statement above was false...

Yes it was. You have a gui browser at your disposal, so you could
connect to facebook (and others) if you wanted to. There are no
technical bariers...

Yes. But he did not say that there are technical barriers.

I do not work. That's not "i can't work".

I think that's an interesting point of expectation. The idea that a program that does not work or isn't running is because someone doesn't want to use it is not in the first minds possible reasons.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

-={ 2021-01-16 10:16:47.074639287+00:00 }=-

Hey Wilfred!

There are no technical bariers

Nothing to swipe or tap to make it so, therefore it doesn't really exist and is unlikely to ever exist given the total lack of concern over all of it. The barrier is more real than the access to said communications that probably will never, ever see the light of day in my time on the tablet in question.

Fidonet is doable. I could post another msg from it if ever matters. That does work.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)