Hello, All.

Is this group alive?

--
Best regards!
Posted using Hotdoged on Android
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

Hi bebyx!

02 Jan 2021 22:11, from bebyx -> All:

Is this group alive?

I am reading it ;)

CU, Ricsi

... If you find a path with no obstacles it probably doesn't lead anywhere.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Brevity is the soul of wit. (2:310/31)

Hi, Richard.
On 02.01.21 21:59 you wrote:

Hi bebyx! 02 Jan 2021 22:11, from bebyx -> All:

Is this group alive?

I am reading it ;) CU, Ricsi ... If you find a path with no
obstacles it probably doesn't lead anywhere. --- GoldED+/LNX *
Origin: Brevity is the soul of wit. (2:310/31)

That's great!

I use Debian and Gentoo. Looking forward to meaningful discussion.

--
Regards
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

Re: Great!
By: bebyx to Richard Menedetter on Sun Jan 03 2021 01:28 am

Hi, Richard.
On 02.01.21 21:59 you wrote:

Hi bebyx! 02 Jan 2021 22:11, from bebyx -> All:

Is this group alive?

I am reading it ;) CU, Ricsi ... If you find a path with no
obstacles it probably doesn't lead anywhere. --- GoldED+/LNX *
Origin: Brevity is the soul of wit. (2:310/31)

That's great!

I use Debian and Gentoo. Looking forward to meaningful discussion.

--
Regards

OK for meaningful conversation.

I am waiting for Patrick to release Slackware 15. The wait is getting ridiculous at this point.

I am also toying a lot with Tiny Core Linux. I like the project but they do need better infrastructure. When I see core developers of the distro use gmail addresses instead of one tied to Tiny Core I go yucks.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

I use Debian and Gentoo. Looking forward to meaningful discussion.

I've heard that Debian is more "stable" than Ubuntu, but what is meant by
that? I haven't had any issues with Ubuntu crashing, and I've used what feels like a ton of software with it.

I'm interested in Debian because I'm assuming it's lighter and faster than Ubuntu, but I'm reluctant because I'm concerned about compatibility when I
move files from an Ubuntu machine to a Debian one. Should that be a concern?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Re: Re: Great!
By: Aaron Thomas to bebyx on Sun Jan 03 2021 12:35 am

I've heard that Debian is more "stable" than Ubuntu, but what is meant by that? I haven't had any issues with Ubuntu crashing, and I've used what feels like a ton of software with it.

Debian stable is very stable. The software in there got plenty of testing before release but it can be old (by some standards) by the time it is released or soon after.

There is also the testing and unstable branches of debian. If I were to run debian myself I would run a mix of testing and unstable on my desktop. If stability is a concern then stable is what you want.

I'm interested in Debian because I'm assuming it's lighter and faster than Ubuntu, but I'm reluctant because I'm concerned about compatibility when I move files from an Ubuntu machine to a Debian one. Should that be a concern?

I have no issues moving files around, I use ext4 file systems mostly. I have small partitions for the OS and large ones for files that I can read/write regardless of the OS I am running ATM.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Hindsight is an exact science
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

Hello, Richard Falken.
On 02.01.21 18:52 you wrote:

Re: Great!
By: bebyx to Richard Menedetter on Sun Jan 03 2021 01:28 am

Hi, Richard. On 02.01.21 21:59 you wrote: RM> Hi bebyx! 02 Jan
2021 22:11, from bebyx -> All: be>> Is this group alive? RM> I
am reading it ;) CU, Ricsi ... If you find a path with no RM>
obstacles it probably doesn't lead anywhere. --- GoldED+/LNX *

Origin: Brevity is the soul of wit. (2:310/31) That's great!

I use Debian and Gentoo. Looking forward to meaningful
discussion.
--
Regards

OK for meaningful conversation. I am waiting for Patrick to
release Slackware 15. The wait is getting ridiculous at this
point. I am also toying a lot with Tiny Core Linux. I like the
project but they do need better infrastructure. When I see core developers of the distro use gmail addresses instead of one tied
to Tiny Core I go yucks.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken --- SBBSecho
3.12-Linux * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola,
FL * (1:123/115)

I don't have experience with Slackware nor Tiny CoreLinux (gmail is a real shame, though), but I see you have a gopherhole. I use it, too! gopher://io.bebyx.co.ua
--
Regards
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

Hello, Aaron Thomas.
On 03.01.21 00:35 you wrote:

I use Debian and Gentoo. Looking forward to meaningful
discussion.

I've heard that Debian is more "stable" than Ubuntu, but what is
meant by that? I haven't had any issues with Ubuntu crashing, and
I've used what feels like a ton of software with it.

The first thing I'm thinking of when I hear about stable Debian vs unstable Ubuntu is that I always had problems when I tried to upgrade Ubuntu version. Actually it just won't update and it crashed, so I had to reinstall Ubuntu (just like Windows).

In Debian, dist-upgrade works just fine. So far, I use sid for a year and feel it like more stable than Ubuntu.

I'm interested in Debian because I'm assuming it's lighter and
faster than Ubuntu, but I'm reluctant because I'm concerned about compatibility when I move files from an Ubuntu machine to a Debian
one. Should that be a concern?

Well, Debian is definitely lighter, because it doesn't have extras implemented by Canonical in Ubuntu by default like snap-crap and so on.

I don't think there should be any file compatibility issues if we are talking about storage. If both have ext4 you are good to go (maybe, different file systems are also fine, but I cannot guarantee since I never tested that). I exchange files regularly between my Debian and Gentoo laptops (both ext4) it's more than compatible.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64) * Origin: CompuBBS
| Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

--
Regards
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

Hello Alan!

02 Jan 21 20:47, you wrote to Aaron Thomas:

Debian stable is very stable. The software in there got plenty of
testing before release but it can be old (by some standards) by the
time it is released or soon after.

For me stable means "supported for long time".

I recently moved few servers to CentOS 8, and that time I started to be familiar a bit with systemd got that news - there will be no CentOS soon. Nearly fainted down... ;-)

Karel

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Plast DATA (2:423/39)

Hi bebyx!

03 Jan 2021 01:28, from bebyx -> Richard Menedetter:

I use Debian and Gentoo.

I use Debian on servers and usually Ubuntu on the Desktop.
A few days ago I installed Manjaro on my Pinebook Pro.
It is better supported and they changed their default distro from Debian to Manjaro.

CU, Ricsi

... With freedom comes responsibility. If only the reverse were as certain.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Transporting really is the safest way to travel. (2:310/31)

Hi Aaron!

03 Jan 2021 00:35, from Aaron Thomas -> bebyx:

I've heard that Debian is more "stable" than Ubuntu, but what is meant
by that?

Debian uses "older" software versions in their main branch.
Some call it outdated, but you can be quit sure that there are little bugs in it.

Both should be stable in the sense that they do not crash.

It usually comes down to preference.
I use Debian on the server and usually Ubuntu on the desktop.
(Debian will also not include some non free software that Ubuntu does include.)

I haven't had any issues with Ubuntu crashing, and I've used
what feels like a ton of software with it.

If it works for you, don't change it.
I have never seen unstable distributions (apart from testing branches).
It usually comes down to personal preference and specialities (eg. Kali linux for security and Pen Testing)

I have to admit that Ubuntu is heading into a direction that I do not like particularly.
They try to shove snap down our throats with great force ... do not like that!

I'm interested in Debian because I'm assuming it's lighter and faster
than Ubuntu, but I'm reluctant because I'm concerned about
compatibility when I move files from an Ubuntu machine to a Debian
one. Should that be a concern?

What do you mean by moving files? (binaries, or documents or what??)
What sort of compatibility concerns do you have?
Kali and Ubuntu are both based on Debian ...

BTW I do not think there is a huge performance difference on modern PCs.
They are so fast anyhow that you will not see a big difference.

CU, Ricsi

... Time may be a great healer, but it's also a lousy beautician.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: My ally in the Force. And a powerful ally it is. (2:310/31)

Re: Re: Great!
By: Aaron Thomas to bebyx on Sun Jan 03 2021 12:35 am

I use Debian and Gentoo. Looking forward to meaningful discussion.

I've heard that Debian is more "stable" than Ubuntu, but what is meant by that? I haven't had any issues with Ubuntu crashing, and I've used what feel like a ton of software with it.

I'm interested in Debian because I'm assuming it's lighter and faster than Ubuntu, but I'm reluctant because I'm concerned about compatibility when I move files from an Ubuntu machine to a Debian one. Should that be a concern?

Back in 2008 Ubuntu's quality control was not great. You could expect lots of packages in the repository to have bugs, and things not to work well once you stepped out of the default settings. Things have greatly improved since.

Debian is stable in the sense that you can expect no API breakage within a release... if Debian 23 ships with a package called mySoftware, you know that such package has been in the testing repository for a number of years before making it to stable. Also, if mySoftware needs a security fix or a critical patch, such fix will be backported in a way that does not break your operating system configuration - as opposed to other distributions, in which software may be updated in ways that need you to manually reconfigure things.

Migrating from Debian to Ubuntu and the other way around sounds hassle-free to me. That said, if you are hapyp with your current setup, I would not change it... if you want to experiment with different distributions, get a spare computer or set a virtual machie instead.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Re: Great!
By: bebyx to Richard Falken on Sun Jan 03 2021 10:15 am

I don't have experience with Slackware nor Tiny CoreLinux (gmail is a real shame, though), but I see you have a gopherhole. I use it, too! gopher://io.bebyx.co.ua
--
Regards

heh, I see you use pyGopherd!

I liked it when I tried it, but nowadays I use gophernicus instead. It is in the OpenBSD ports system.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Hello Aaron!

03 Jan 21 00:35, Aaron Thomas wrote to bebyx:

I've heard that Debian is more "stable" than Ubuntu, but what is
meant by that?

A long time ago (just increase the year and software version numbers below, and it'll probably still work these days ;-) there was a saying like

---
Debian comes in three flavours: stale, rusting and broken. These are renamed once or twice per decade. Right now, "rusting" is actually already "stale", but it cannot be released officially before 2004 because gnome2 and kde3 are not sufficiently outdated yet, and a dysfunctional version of inn is missing for "broken".
---


Regards,
Gerrit

... 10:25AM up 74 days, 21:26, 8 users, load averages: 0.34, 0.28, 0.25

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: We're telling tales of communication (2:240/12)

Richard Falken wrote to bebyx <=-

I use Debian and Gentoo. Looking forward to meaningful discussion.

OK for meaningful conversation.

I am waiting for Patrick to release Slackware 15. The wait is
getting ridiculous at this point.

Agreed. In fact it's well beyond ridiculous. I am actually starting
to think about jumping ship to something else, which pains me.

I am also toying a lot with Tiny Core Linux. I like the project
but they do need better infrastructure. When I see core
developers of the distro use gmail addresses instead of one tied
to Tiny Core I go yucks.

Haven't tried that one. If I do switch it'll likely be to something
either Debian or Arch based, or actual straight Debian. Right now I'm
liking MX Linux and Manjaro pretty well. Still wondering if I want to
deal with systemd though. Maybe Patrick will finally do it soon.



... Clones are people two.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Debian stable is very stable. The software in there got plenty of testing before release but it can be old (by some standards) by the time it is released or soon after.

That makes sense. I just had no idea what they meant. Is a horse's stable "stable?" lol

I have no issues moving files around, I use ext4 file systems mostly. I have small partitions for the OS and large ones for files that I can read/write regardless of the OS I am running ATM.

But I mean, suppose I move my Mystic BBS from an Ubuntu 18.04 rack server to a home computer running Debian - do you think Mystic would work without skipping a beat?

I do some other stuff besides run Mystic, but that's the main concern at the moment.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Hello Richard,

On Sun Jan 03 2021 09:28:46, Richard Menedetter wrote to bebyx:

A few days ago I installed Manjaro on my Pinebook Pro.
It is better supported and they changed their default distro from
Debian to Manjaro.

I've been using Archlinux for years now and have no reason to change. However, since Manjaro is based off Archlinux I gave it a looksee and from what I could tell it looks solid if you're looking for an easy installer to a full desktop environment. Seems like they did a great job with it.

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Re: Re: Great!
By: Aaron Thomas to Alan Ianson on Sun Jan 03 2021 07:52 am

But I mean, suppose I move my Mystic BBS from an Ubuntu 18.04 rack server to a home computer running Debian - do you think Mystic would work without skipping a beat?

Yes, just zip it up and copy it to your new server and unzip it.. no worries.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Old MacDonald had a computer, with EIA I/O...
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

Re: Re: Great!
By: Dan Clough to Richard Falken on Sun Jan 03 2021 09:30 am

Haven't tried that one. If I do switch it'll likely be to something
either Debian or Arch based, or actual straight Debian. Right now I'm liking MX Linux and Manjaro pretty well. Still wondering if I want to
deal with systemd though. Maybe Patrick will finally do it soon.

Word is that Slackware -current is going to hit Release Candidate soon (based on a bunch of packages that have been included recently, including some modern KDE stuff). If that is the case, we could have Slackware 15 in mid 2021.

I am keeping Slackware on every machine that does not need upgrading, and migrating everything else to OpenBSD. My problem is what to do if I need to migrate something specifically to Linux... Devuan could do the trick, but I am not a fan of Debian and derivatives. Gentoo is just too time consuming to set up.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Richard Falken wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Haven't tried that one. If I do switch it'll likely be to something
either Debian or Arch based, or actual straight Debian. Right now I'm liking MX Linux and Manjaro pretty well. Still wondering if I want to
deal with systemd though. Maybe Patrick will finally do it soon.

Word is that Slackware -current is going to hit Release Candidate
soon (based on a bunch of packages that have been included
recently, including some modern KDE stuff). If that is the case,
we could have Slackware 15 in mid 2021.

Yes, I think that sounds about right. I watch the changelog closely
and am thinking the same thing. Hope we're right.

I am keeping Slackware on every machine that does not need
upgrading, and migrating everything else to OpenBSD. My problem
is what to do if I need to migrate something specifically to
Linux... Devuan could do the trick, but I am not a fan of Debian
and derivatives. Gentoo is just too time consuming to set up.

I didn't use to like Debian but it has grown on me over the years. If
not for the pesky systemd I'd probably already be there. Straight
Arch Linux is pretty good too, but takes some effort to get done,
kinda like Gentoo does. Has GREAT documentation though, and an
excellent package management system. I dabbled with FreeBSD years ago
but found it too different than what I was used to, and lacked the
motivation to learn about it. Will probably give it another try at
some point. Haven't ever tried the other BSD's (Open/Net).



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Hello Richard!

03 Jan 21 13:00, Richard Falken wrote to Dan Clough:

but I am
not a fan of Debian and derivatives. Gentoo is just too time
consuming to set
up.

Gentoo setup can be sped up by using orchestration tools, but I see your point. I've been using Sabayon Linux in these cases (Gentoo with installer and binary packages). However, they are rebranding the project these days, so I wouldn't use it for new installations.
Their new Mocaccino OS is joined by Funtoo folks. Don't know how long they'll take to get this new beast production-ready, but it certainly looks like interesting technology to me:
http://www.sabayon.org/article/joining-funtoo/ http://www.sabayon.org/article/sabayon-is-rebranding/ https://www.mocaccino.org/


Regards,
Gerrit

... 9:13PM up 75 days, 8:14, 8 users, load averages: 0.29, 0.29, 0.25

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: And the pastiche we've invented (2:240/12)

unstable Ubuntu is that I always had problems when I tried to upgrade Ubuntu version. Actually it just won't update and it crashed, so I had
to reinstall Ubuntu (just like Windows).

Come to think of it, I did have a similar problem when I upgraded from Ubuntu 18.04 to 20.04 LTS. So then I ended up having to re-install all my junk afterwards which was not a smooth transition.

talking about storage. If both have ext4 you are good to go (maybe,

With that being said, it sounds like it might work. I run my BBS on a VPS that only allows me to choose between Ubuntu (a few versions) and CentOS (which is not something I want to try out.) I often compress the BBS & download it so I can work on it on my local machine, then I upload it back to the VPS when I'm done. I've assumed that both machines need to have the same OS, but like you said - if they have the same file system, it might be just fine.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

It usually comes down to preference.

It will be interesting to give it a try. I'll try it on my old 32 bit pc to
see if it feels right or not.

They try to shove snap down our throats with great force ... do not like that!

But you don't really have to use it, do you? I'm using KDE, and the "Discover Software Center" seems sort of a like a joke. (KDE is cool, but not Discover.) I've never found anything in there that I was looking for except for a particular date widget that I like.

I've found Snap to be more helpful. Snap was the only way (that I could find) to install Android Studio.

What do you mean by moving files? (binaries, or documents or what??)
What sort of compatibility concerns do you have?

My concern was copying my Mystic BBS from an Ubuntu machine to a Debian machine, so I could work on it locally, then copying it back to the Ubuntu machine when finished - and being able to run it without any hickups.

But like bebyx said, if they're both using an ext3 file system, it seems likely to work fine. I'll post back here after I try it.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

hassle-free to me. That said, if you are hapyp with your current setup,
I would not change it... if you want to experiment with different distributions, get a spare computer or set a virtual machie instead.

That sounds like a good plan to me. Ubuntu has been good to me.

I used Mint for several years, but then when they released Mint 20, I loved
the new look and everything, but I was no longer able to get my printer
working (and it's an awesome printer) so I reverted to Ubuntu 20.01 LTS and things have never been better! I paired it with KDE & I love it.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Debian comes in three flavours: stale, rusting and broken. These are

Stale has always been my style! Installing updates should never be a high priority, at least not outside of business applicatons.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Re: Re: Great!
By: Dan Clough to Richard Falken on Sun Jan 03 2021 02:39 pm

I didn't use to like Debian but it has grown on me over the years. If
not for the pesky systemd I'd probably already be there. Straight
Arch Linux is pretty good too, but takes some effort to get done,
kinda like Gentoo does. Has GREAT documentation though, and an
excellent package management system. I dabbled with FreeBSD years ago
but found it too different than what I was used to, and lacked the motivation to learn about it. Will probably give it another try at
some point. Haven't ever tried the other BSD's (Open/Net).

Nowadays I don't feel like using anything that lacks a ports system, unless it is for trivial tasks. Being able to automatically compile your software against any library you see fit, instead of having to keep the libraries the packagers have decided you must use, solves a lot of problems. This is what I end up missing the most with Devuan and friends. I still install lots of Devuans for relatives, though.

My issue with FreeBSD is precisely that it feels so much like Linux :-P NetBSD and OpenBSD are pretty much their own thing. I like OpenBSD because the operating system is much better organized, but you are in for a lot of man page reading.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Re: Re: Great!
By: Gerrit Kuehn to Richard Falken on Sun Jan 03 2021 09:13 pm

Hello Richard!

03 Jan 21 13:00, Richard Falken wrote to Dan Clough:

but I am
not a fan of Debian and derivatives. Gentoo is just too time
consuming to set
up.

Gentoo setup can be sped up by using orchestration tools, but I see your poi I've been using Sabayon Linux in these cases (Gentoo with installer and bina packages). However, they are rebranding the project these days, so I wouldn' use it for new installations.
Their new Mocaccino OS is joined by Funtoo folks. Don't know how long they'l take to get this new beast production-ready, but it certainly looks like interesting technology to me:
http://www.sabayon.org/article/joining-funtoo/ http://www.sabayon.org/article/sabayon-is-rebranding/ https://www.mocaccino.org/

Regards,
Gerrit

... 9:13PM up 75 days, 8:14, 8 users, load averages: 0.29, 0.29, 0.25

Thanks for dropping by.

I am aware of Sabayon and Funtoo, but Mocaccino was under my radar.

My main concern with source based distributions is running them in adverse conditions - places with no Internet, bad Internet, or limited data plans. Specially if you have fleets of machines in office. Imagine if you have an office with 20 computers and a data plan that tops at 5 GB for all of them. Hint: this is not a theoretical scenario.

You can use build hosts in and out of premises, but setting these things up
can be such a burden :-( Specially if your computer fleet is not homogeneous.

What I like of Slackware is that the core system is binary, so you can get your upgrades to the base system out of the premises with limited Internet and bring them in with a pen drive. Building your own packages home for unofficial pkgs and taking them into office is also trivial. Same goes for OpenBSD - which also offers binary builds for the popular software in the ports tree anyway.

Most Linux distributions are not designed for offline use, which can be really troublesome.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Re: Re: Great!
By: Aaron Thomas to bebyx on Sun Jan 03 2021 05:58 pm

unstable Ubuntu is that I always had problems when I tried to upgrade Ubuntu version. Actually it just won't update and it
crashed, so I had
to reinstall Ubuntu (just like Windows).

Come to think of it, I did have a similar problem when I upgraded from Ubuntu 18.04 to 20.04 LTS. So then I ended up having to
re-install all my junk afterwards which was not a smooth transition.

talking about storage. If both have ext4 you are good to go (maybe,

With that being said, it sounds like it might work. I run my BBS on a VPS that only allows me to choose between Ubuntu (a few
versions) and CentOS (which is not something I want to try out.) I often compress the BBS & download it so I can work on it on m
local machine, then I upload it back to the VPS when I'm done. I've assumed that both machines need to have the same OS, but lik
you said - if they have the same file system, it might be just fine.

I started to have problems with the unstable release upgrade of 19.10. I generally use CLI interface.
When not using a 32 bit version (that hasn't be around for awhile now) a simple command like:
do-release-upgrade

usually works pretty good to get to the stable next release. I've tried other methods but nothing worked.
My last upgrade from 19.10 with zfs took awhile.

I have another system I support that started as a Kubuntu 18.something, and a monkey operator upgraded it to ubuntu 19.10. Then the
same monkey operator tried to upgrade it to 20.04 but ... it got stuck. I haven't had the desire to unwind it yet to fix it.

The system is a baremetal system too.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet:\\bbs.ewbbs.net (1:227/201)

But I mean, suppose I move my Mystic BBS from an Ubuntu 18.04 rack se to a home computer running Debian - do you think Mystic would work wi skipping a beat?

Yes, just zip it up and copy it to your new server and unzip it.. no worries.

Do you think that would be fine accross most distros provided that they're all using an ext3 file system?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Re: Re: Great!
By: Aaron Thomas to Alan Ianson on Mon Jan 04 2021 05:15 am

Do you think that would be fine accross most distros provided that they're all using an ext3 file system?

Yes, you could even unzip a BBS from another OS although you might have to reset the permissions and ownership of the files.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Baroque: When you are out of Monet.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

Hello, Richard Falken.
On 03.01.21 05:00 you wrote:

Re: Great!
By: bebyx to Richard Falken on Sun Jan 03 2021 10:15 am

I don't have experience with Slackware nor Tiny CoreLinux (gmail
is a real shame, though), but I see you have a gopherhole. I use
it, too! gopher://io.bebyx.co.ua
--
Regards

heh, I see you use pyGopherd! I liked it when I tried it, but
nowadays I use gophernicus instead. It is in the OpenBSD ports
system.

My first attempt to create gopherhole was with gopher2000. It's written in Ruby and inspired by Sinatra, so it can do some nice scripting work on the go.

But I stayed with pygopherd since I decided to make my hole static and no scripts needed.

Why do you think gophernicus is better than pygopherd?

--
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

Hello, Aaron Thomas.
On 03.01.21 18:38 you wrote:

I've found Snap to be more helpful. Snap was the only way (that I
could find) to install Android Studio.

What's the problem with Android Studio? For my Debian, I just downloaded the package and start it with the script included inside the package. And you can update the Studio inside the Studio, so there are no worries about the package management.

--
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Android device, Milky Way (2:467/888.57)

Hi bebyx!

03 Jan 2021 10:33, from bebyx -> Aaron Thomas:

The first thing I'm thinking of when I hear about stable Debian vs unstable Ubuntu is that I always had problems when I tried to upgrade Ubuntu version. Actually it just won't update and it crashed, so I had
to reinstall Ubuntu (just like Windows).
In Debian, dist-upgrade works just fine. So far, I use sid for a year
and feel it like more stable than Ubuntu.

I agree.
Ubuntu told me that there are no further updates, and you need to reinstall a newer version to get security updates.
LTS Long Time Support releases are a bit better ... but still.

I don't think there should be any file compatibility issues if we are talking about storage. If both have ext4 you are good to go (maybe, different file systems are also fine, but I cannot guarantee since I
never tested that). I exchange files regularly between my Debian and Gentoo laptops (both ext4) it's more than compatible.

btrfs should be also fine.
I have a strong feeling that it will be the next "default" file system.

CU, Ricsi

... Early to rise, early to bed makes a man healthy but socially dead.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: You cannot antagonize and influence at the same time. (2:310/31)

Hi Nicholas!

03 Jan 2021 09:48, from Nicholas Boel -> Richard Menedetter:

A few days ago I installed Manjaro on my Pinebook Pro.
It is better supported and they changed their default distro from
Debian to Manjaro.

I've been using Archlinux for years now and have no reason to change. However, since Manjaro is based off Archlinux I gave it a looksee and
from what I could tell it looks solid if you're looking for an easy installer to a full desktop environment. Seems like they did a great
job with it.

Never used arch before, but heard good things.
Main reason was that my HW is a focus for Manjaro. https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/
The HW has some quirks and Manjaro have dedicated support for it. (Pinebooks are now delivered with it.)
The Previous Debian build was from one guy.
He did a great job, but it was a bit too much for one person.

Anyhow ... I am currently quit happy with it.
But I am still struggling a bit with apt update versus pacman -Syu
I find it highly unintuitive.

I need to take a closer look at desktop distros.
I start to dislike Ubuntu more and more ...
But I am too lazy to look for a better alternative.
Maybe I switch to Kali on the Desktop ...
Do you also use Arch on the Desktop?
How does it compare to Ubuntu on the desktop?

On servers I use Debian, and I am very happy with it.
(I do not mind the older releases it ships with ...)

CU, Ricsi

... Such companies give a bad name to the penis enhancement business.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Gonna take, a sentamental journey. (2:310/31)

Hello Richard!

03 Jan 21 18:28, Richard Falken wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

I am aware of Sabayon and Funtoo, but Mocaccino was under my radar.

It's quite new and not yet production-ready.

My main concern with source based distributions is running them in adverse
conditions - places with no Internet, bad Internet, or limited data plans.
Specially if you have fleets of machines in office. Imagine if you
have an
office with 20 computers and a data plan that tops at 5 GB for all of them.

Sabayon and Mocaccino come with binary packages. But the issue is more or less the same: you need to get data (either source or binary) to your hosts. If your connection is limited, you'll have to be creative... set up a local repo mirror and fill it via network only if required once for all machines, or even use media to get the data in.

Hint: this is not a theoretical scenario.

Sure, although this is not the scenario I usually face. The place I work at with the worst connection still has a 150MBit radio link.

You can use build hosts in and out of premises, but setting these
things up
can be such a burden :-( Specially if your computer fleet is not homogeneous.

Yes, if you really rely on your own source builds. But as I said, Sabayon and Mocaccino provide precompiled binaries as almost any other distribution.

Most Linux distributions are not designed for offline use, which can
be really
troublesome.

Always depends on the circumstances, how many bandwidth, storage, cpu power, manpower etc. you have available. Setting up a repo mirror should not be too difficult (at least not for Gentoo and derivatives).


Regards,
Gerrit

... 10:55AM up 75 days, 21:56, 8 users, load averages: 0.33, 0.33, 0.31

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: All carefully conceived (2:240/12)

Hello Aaron!

03 Jan 21 18:58, Aaron Thomas wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Debian comes in three flavours: stale, rusting and broken. These are

Stale has always been my style! Installing updates should never be a
high
priority, at least not outside of business applicatons.

Yeah, well, depends... if the system is connected to the internet or any other "hostile" environment, I'll probably at least want security updates.


Regards,
Gerrit

... 11:06AM up 75 days, 22:07, 8 users, load averages: 0.14, 0.20, 0.25

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: Is serving every man (2:240/12)

Hi Aaron!

03 Jan 2021 17:58, from Aaron Thomas -> bebyx:

I run my BBS on a VPS that only allows me to choose between Ubuntu (a
few versions) and CentOS (which is not something I want to try out.)

I use netcup, and I am quit happy with them.

I am paying 8.4 EUR == 10.5 USD per month for 2 AMD Epyc cores with 8 GB RAM and 160 GB SSD, 1 IPv4 and a /64 IPv6 with a 2.5 GBit/s ethernet card and unlimited traffic.
For 14 EUR you can double the number of cores, RAM and SSD.

Here is the list of default images:


Archlinux / Minimal, ...
CentOS 7 / Minimal, Plesk, webuzo, ...
CentOS 8 / Minimal, ...
Debian (10) Buster / Jitsi, Minimal, Plesk, ...
Debian (9) Stretch / Minimal, OpenVPN Access Server, Plesk, PowerDNS Master, PowerDNS Slave, ...
Fedora 32 / Minimal, ...
FreeBSD 11 / Minimal, ...
FreeBSD 12 / Minimal, ...
OpenSUSE Leap 15.2 / Minimal, ...
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS / Cloudron, Docker, Minimal, Nextcloud, OpenVPN Access Server, Seafile, ...
Ubuntu 20.04 LTS / Minimal, ...

If you want something else, you can upload an ISO and it will boot that ISO.

Works really well!

CU, Ricsi

... The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt. (2:310/31)

Hi Aaron!

03 Jan 2021 18:38, from Aaron Thomas -> Richard Menedetter:

They try to shove snap down our throats with great force ... do
not like that!

But you don't really have to use it, do you?

Well ... Ubuntu stops offering non snap packages for some software.
If you want to use that software, it is either use snap or change your distro to something other than Ubuntu.

I've found Snap to be more helpful. Snap was the only way (that I
could find) to install Android Studio.

For Debian it states, download from official lik, untar, execute.

My concern was copying my Mystic BBS from an Ubuntu machine to a
Debian machine, so I could work on it locally, then copying it back to
the Ubuntu machine when finished - and being able to run it without
any hickups.

I do not use Mystic.
(and I have seen so many critical bugs in it, that I surely never will ...)
But if it is statically compiled it should be no isse.
If it is not statically compiled, you need to supply it with the necessary libraries. (I assume it is static, so copying should work on ANY linux)

But like bebyx said, if they're both using an ext3 file system, it
seems likely to work fine. I'll post back here after I try it.

The file system is completely irrelevant.
As long as linux supports it, you are good to go.

The important thing are the needed libraries.
You can check with ldd.

Here is an output for a dynamically compiled golded:
ricsi@menedetter:~$ ldd /usr/local/sbin/gedlnx
linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007ffe2a6da000)
libncurses.so.5 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libncurses.so.5 (0x00007f67170d1000)
libtinfo.so.5 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libtinfo.so.5 (0x00007f67170a5000)
libstdc++.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6 (0x00007f6716f21000)
libm.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6 (0x00007f6716d9e000)
libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x00007f6716d84000)
libc.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x00007f6716bc3000)
libdl.so.2 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdl.so.2 (0x00007f6716bbc000)
/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007f6717105000)

CU, Ricsi

... The time when patience is most needed is when it is exhausted.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Nostalgia is a seductive liar. (2:310/31)

What's the problem with Android Studio? For my Debian, I just downloaded the package and start it with the script included inside the package.
And you can update the Studio inside the Studio, so there are no worries about the package management.

I like the idea of installing software through the GUI, because over the years I install tons of stuff that I probably will only use once, and then I'll forget how I installed it, and it will sit there forever. The software center is good for forgetful people, but they don't always have what I'm looking for. (Not that I blame them.)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

I am paying 8.4 EUR == 10.5 USD per month for 2 AMD Epyc cores with 8 GB RAM and 160 GB SSD, 1 IPv4 and a /64 IPv6 with a 2.5 GBit/s ethernet
card and unlimited traffic.

That looks like an ok price, and they are probably a good hosting company, but I was very lucky to get a hosting company with full root access for $6 USD/month.

My plan doesn't have nearly as much RAM or storage space as yours, but I'm content with having full root access. For me, that brings many advantages for the BBS. (I know, I talk like BBSs are the most important thing in the world) :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Re: Great!
By: bebyx to Richard Falken on Mon Jan 04 2021 11:26 am

Why do you think gophernicus is better than pygopherd?

It is not necessarily that I think it is *better*, it just suits me better.

* It is included in the OpenBSD ports system so I don't have to port it myself. * I like the fact it is a small C program instead of some interpretated language monster :-)
* I am just more familiar with the way CGI and filters are incorporated to a gophernicus site.

Also, the developer is easy to find and lets you bother him with your issues. I suspect that is true of pygopherd too :-P

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Hi Aaron!

04 Jan 2021 14:16, from Aaron Thomas -> Richard Menedetter:

I am paying 8.4 EUR == 10.5 USD per month for 2 AMD Epyc cores
with 8 GB RAM and 160 GB SSD, 1 IPv4 and a /64 IPv6 with a 2.5
GBit/s ethernet card and unlimited traffic.

That looks like an ok price, and they are probably a good hosting
company, but I was very lucky to get a hosting company with full root access for $6 USD/month.
My plan doesn't have nearly as much RAM or storage space as yours, but
I'm content with having full root access.

Sure ... if you do not need the added RAM, then why pay more :)

I actually also do not need it, but I nearly went one tear higher, as it is nice to have :) and having 320 GB SSD would have been nice.

My previous product (same company) cost 1 EUR less and had double the storage. (2 Xeon cores, 6 GB RAM, 320 GB SATA)
The difference is SATA (mechanical disk) vs. SSD (Flash).
It is 10 times faster now, but sadly only half as large :)

CU, Ricsi

... Whiskey to a Scot is as innocent as milk is to the rest of the world.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects. (2:310/31)

The difference is SATA (mechanical disk) vs. SSD (Flash).
It is 10 times faster now, but sadly only half as large :)

I love the SSDs too! I got my first home pc with one and it's much quieter. I can't even tell if it's on.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Hello bebyx!

02 Jan 2021 22:11, bebyx wrote to All:

Is this group alive?

no :)


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.10.4-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

Hello bebyx!

03 Jan 2021 01:28, bebyx wrote to Richard Menedetter:

I use Debian and Gentoo. Looking forward to meaningful discussion.

good


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.10.4-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
* Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)

Hello Richard,

On Mon Jan 04 2021 13:00:12, Richard Menedetter wrote to Nicholas Boel:

Anyhow ... I am currently quit happy with it.
But I am still struggling a bit with apt update versus pacman -Syu
I find it highly unintuitive.

Do you even have to use pacman with Manjaro? I thought it had a nice GUI package management system that can do all of that for you?

Do you also use Arch on the Desktop?

I don't personally. I use Arch for all of my personal servers. However, it could easily be installed and setup on a desktop.

How does it compare to Ubuntu on the desktop?

Archlinux starts from a very basic console install, with no GUI/desktop environment. You choose what you want to install after that. Manjaro is more comparable to Ubuntu where you have a full GUI after installation. I don't dig too far into it to care to have an opinion on which is better or not though, since linux is always about personal preference and what works better for you.

On servers I use Debian, and I am very happy with it.
(I do not mind the older releases it ships with ...)

Since my servers are all for personal hobby only, and in no way work related or professional, I chose Arch since it's very bleeding edge, quite the opposite of Debian. If any of this hobby was actually used professionally, I would probably use a more notably stable distribution. *shrug*

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hi Nicholas!

09 Jan 2021 09:12, from Nicholas Boel -> Richard Menedetter:

Anyhow ... I am currently quit happy with it.
But I am still struggling a bit with apt update versus pacman
-Syu I find it highly unintuitive.

Do you even have to use pacman with Manjaro? I thought it had a nice
GUI package management system that can do all of that for you?

It probably has.
I am used to using the terminal to install stuff.
Usually I have headless systems ;)

How does it compare to Ubuntu on the desktop?

Archlinux starts from a very basic console install, with no
GUI/desktop environment. You choose what you want to install after
that. Manjaro is more comparable to Ubuntu where you have a full GUI
after installation. I don't dig too far into it to care to have an
opinion on which is better or not though, since linux is always about personal preference and what works better for you.

Yes indeed.
ATM I am quite happy with it.
And they are really dedicated to the Pibebook Pro.
(Own Manjaro forum for example)

CU, Ricsi

... Wise man see more from the bottom of a well than fools from a mountain.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Behaviour is the mirror in which we show our image. (2:310/31)