Nancy wrote --

Hey, you're getting good at making out my drop offs. :)

Sometimes the context is good enough to make an intelligent guess... ;)

:)

They just assume anyone making $50 a week had current expenses.

Or, on the other hand, they hear about expenses back then, and just
assume that one would be earning the same back then as is earned now...
and think how reasonable things used to be.... <G>

True.

When I was in the Navy I made a whole $150 a month, or there
about. But then I have free room and board. :)

It does all balance out somewhat

Yep.

and what was true then is still true today... one needs to spend less than

one takes in, and keep track of prices to get the best deals... ;)

Absolutely.

The one thing that has changed for the worse, though, is interest rates on

savings

That's where various other options come in (CD's, etc).
Of course some of the options are a roll of the dice and not as steady as savings.
When I told about my trip to younger people they would ask "How could you afford that? You must really be in debt" I tell I saved for it and paid
cash and owe nothing.
The idea of saving is alien to a lot of people. Why save money you have
that plastic card and just charge it?
Few have any idea that credit card can come back and bite them later.

Joe (I gotta clean out that closet some day).

And that will never happen if they keep working you to death... <G>

Oh, I do work sooo hard... People think its easy to warm a chair but a
lot of experience goes into that. :)
When people ask me why I'm working I always joke that A1 and/or Marshall can't do without me, they are lost without me.
One day a couple of years ago I was working a shift in a dorm for some
reason (some group or other and needed an extra body) and parking my bike in the police station.
The chief was at "my" desk, in "my" chair, doing something on a laptop.
He asked what I was doing there and I said "You know you guys can't get
along with me." He muttered loud enough for me to hear "that's what you think." LOL

At least you were able to get away and do your Grand Trip.... :)

Yep.
I was off the summer of '18 because A1 (whom I toil and labour mightily
for) had people not needed in the dorms who needed to be kept busy. I
didn't have time to do anything/go anywhere with such short notice.
That was when the bug got in my ear about my grand tour and started
planning then.
In April I had plans made and simply told my captain that being off from mid-May to mid-August "like last year" I was going. I didn't want to think
in mid-August "I should have..." but rather "I did..."
And in response to others asking, I tell them I would do it again in a
heart beat. The only difference would be biting off less or taking more time. There was still so much I wanted to see and places I wanted to go but had
only so much time (and money).
If I had an unlimited income I would spend time traveling.
Joe
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Joe,

The idea of saving is alien to a lot of people. Why save money you have
that plastic card and just charge it?
Few have any idea that credit card can come back and bite them later.

And, so many have to learn the hard way. It's like the tagline "If you
think no one cares, try missing your bill payments". :P

Oh, I do work sooo hard... People think its easy to warm a chair but a
lot of experience goes into that. :)

That's my definition of a "hotspot" with my GPS (grand posterior
seated). <G>

The chief was at "my" desk, in "my" chair, doing something on a laptop.
He asked what I was doing there and I said "You know you guys can't get
along with me." He muttered loud enough for me to hear "that's what you JM>think." LOL

You should've asked him to turn over his check to you. :P

There was still so much I wanted to see and places I wanted to go but had JM>only so much time (and money).

Always is.

If I had an unlimited income I would spend time traveling.

I'd be on Amtrak almost constantly, in a deluxe bedroom no less, if
that was the case.

Daryl


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Hello Daryl!

** 07.10.19 - 15:14, Daryl Stout wrote to JOE MACKEY:

If I had an unlimited income I would spend time traveling.

I'd be on Amtrak almost constantly, in a deluxe bedroom no less, if
that was the case.

Doesn't the Amtrak have the worst record of derailments? :(

But certainly, I have enjoyed several fine long distance train rides in my lifetime with our own Canadian version called VIA Rail.


../|ug

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Daryl wrote --

If I had an unlimited income I would spend time traveling.

I'd be on Amtrak almost constantly, in a deluxe bedroom no less, if
that was the case.

That would be nice.
I would prefer a car since I could stop and go as I pleased, no time
tables, free as a bird.
An RV would but nice, but those are so large. A trailer would be nice,
but difficult to get around in.
Joe
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Aug wrote --

Doesn't the Amtrak have the worst record of derailments? :(

And there are a lot of car accidents. Not to mention plane crashes.
I guess there's no means of transportation without some danger, but then that's part of the fun. :)
Joe
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Hello Daryl!

Hi, August...

Doesn't the Amtrak have the worst record of derailments? :(

The thing is, most of them are caused by other things, such as:

1) People trying to beat the train to a railroad crossing. Trains ALWAYS
have the right of way at crossings, whether there's only a crossbuck, or
with flashing lights, or with gates, or some other "blocking device".

2) Vehicles getting "boxed in", such as heavy traffic in the
intersection ahead.

3) Vehicles getting "stuck" on the tracks (such as "low-boy truck
trailers").

4) Breaks in the rails, which can be caused by heat kinks in the summer.

5) Frozen switches in the winter that get stuck between one track and
the other.

6) On waterways, a marine craft strikes a bridge support, putting the
tracks out of alignment.

There have been derailments that were the fault of the engineer, such
as going through a stop signal and hitting another train...going too
fast through a curve...or going too fast in the station at the end of
the line, and hitting the end-of-track bumper.

All locomotives now have an "alerter" instead of the former "dead mans pedal". If the locomotive horn, bell, or other control isn't touched
within a certain period of time, an alarm goes off. The engineer then
must touch one of the controls within a shorter period of time to
silence the alarm. If not, the train automatically applies the emergency
brakes to stop the train.

In the old days, the engineer would have to keep his foot on the "dead
mans pedal"...the theory being if the engineer died or became
incapacitated, his foot would no longer be applying pressure to the
pedal, and it would put the train into emergency stop.

It must be noted that the train will NOT stop instantly, once the
emergency stop is applied, as it takes far more inertia to stop
something that's already moving, than something that has just started
moving. In other words, the train "can't stop on a dime".

But certainly, I have enjoyed several fine long distance train rides in my AA>lifetime with our own Canadian version called VIA Rail.

VIA Rail Canada had a train called "The Canadian" years ago...and on a
VHS Video I had once, called "Continental Divide: A Winter's Journey",
it profiled that train, plus a current train in the winter.

Daryl


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Joe,

That would be nice.

It's unlikely, even if I had the money. You worry about security
issues at home while away (never mind bedbugs at the hotels). But, at
worst, the STUPID AND INEPT Postal Service can NOT follow directions to
HOLD THE MAIL, when I go out of pocket for a few days.

I was going to go down there today to chew out a supervisors butt
(mail was still delivered even after filling out several requests, just
like before), but realized today was the Columbus Day Holiday in the US,
so that scuttled that idea.

I would prefer a car since I could stop and go as I pleased, no time
tables, free as a bird.

And, the birds look for our freshly washed cars to "dump on". <G>

An RV would but nice, but those are so large. A trailer would be nice,
but difficult to get around in.

And, you really have to have the money to purchase, let alone live and travel, in one of them.

Daryl


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Quoting Joe Mackey to Nancy Backus on 10-07-19 05:03 <=-

Replying from Boyd Pond on 12 October, about 12:30 am.... to be uploaded
when I get back home to internet access... ;)

and what was true then is still true today... one needs to spend less
than one takes in, and keep track of prices to get the best deals... ;)

Absolutely.

And, too bad that more people don't understand that... :)

The one thing that has changed for the worse, though, is interest rates
on savings

That's where various other options come in (CD's, etc).
Of course some of the options are a roll of the dice and not as
steady as savings.

Money Maker accounts are as solid as savings, and have a slightly better
rate of interest, but to get the best rates, one has to tie up a lot of
money in the account and not touch it, so it might as well be in a CD...
and CD's are a decent option for money not needed for a while... Going
beyond that to investments, one does have to be more careful.....

When I told about my trip to younger people they would ask "How
could you afford that? You must really be in debt" I tell I saved for
it and paid cash and owe nothing.
The idea of saving is alien to a lot of people. Why save money you
have that plastic card and just charge it?
Few have any idea that credit card can come back and bite them
later.

It depends on how one uses the credit card... if one uses it like cash
(ie, charges it, but when the monthly statement comes, pays it off in
full so no interest is generated), it can be a good deal... it defers
payment, and often gives rebates/cashback... But just amassing a large
debt is totally foolish....

I have more credit available than I'll ever use... enough to really hang myself, should I be foolish enough to max my cards out... but I know
better.... ;)

Joe (I gotta clean out that closet some day).

And that will never happen if they keep working you to death... <G>

Oh, I do work sooo hard... People think its easy to warm a chair
but a lot of experience goes into that. :)

And a lot of good precious time, too.... ;)

When people ask me why I'm working I always joke that A1 and/or
Marshall can't do without me, they are lost without me.
One day a couple of years ago I was working a shift in a dorm for
some reason (some group or other and needed an extra body) and parking
my bike in the police station.
The chief was at "my" desk, in "my" chair, doing something on a
laptop. He asked what I was doing there and I said "You know you guys can't get along with me." He muttered loud enough for me to hear
"that's what you think." LOL

Ya know, the fact that even now that you are retired, they are still
calling you in to work, does seem to indicate that they can't get along
without you... (which, I think, is what you meant to say instead of
"can't get along with me")... <G>

At least you were able to get away and do your Grand Trip.... :)

Yep.
I was off the summer of '18 because A1 (whom I toil and labour
mightily for) had people not needed in the dorms who needed to be kept busy. I didn't have time to do anything/go anywhere with such short notice. That was when the bug got in my ear about my grand tour and started planning then.
In April I had plans made and simply told my captain that being off
from mid-May to mid-August "like last year" I was going. I didn't want
to think in mid-August "I should have..." but rather "I did..."

And good for you that you did... :)

And in response to others asking, I tell them I would do it again in
a heart beat. The only difference would be biting off less or taking
more time. There was still so much I wanted to see and places I wanted
to go but had only so much time (and money).

Just have to start saving now for the next trip.... :)

If I had an unlimited income I would spend time traveling.

One doesn't need unlimited income to travel... just to be able to travel without limits... :)

ttyl neb

... I'm an amateur crastinator; some day I'll turn pro..

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Nancy wrote --

Money Maker accounts are as solid as savings, and have a slightly better rate

of interest, but to get the best rates, one has to tie up a lot of money in the
account and not touch it

True.

Going beyond that to investments, one does have to be more careful.....

Its like the old joke, if you have ask how much something costs you can't afford it.
The stock market is only for people who can afford to lose that amount.
I have some in the market and it keeps going up.
I invested several years ago and have never touched it. In fact, I often even forget I have it. If the market would crash (ala 1929) I probably wouldn't even notice it gone --he wrote with his fingers crossed, which is a hard way to type.--

It depends on how one uses the credit card

I use mine sparingly and even then its only to keep it alive. And I pay
off the statement each month. Of course it has only a $200 limit...
I don't want to get into the mess I did years ago. And then that was a
last resort.
I have always believed in cash only. If one can't afford something save
up for it. (Emergencies etc exempted)
I live as if its still 1932 in the depths of the depression and buy only
what is necessary.

People think its easy to warm a chair
but a lot of experience goes into that. :)

And a lot of good precious time, too.... ;)

Like the ball games. People think its easy but I have to force myself to sample all the food available. Don't want to hurt anyone's feeling eating
at one tail gate and the other.
For some reason I'm reminded of my mother with that remark.
She would have an entree, a couple of veggies, etc at a meal.
If you took a bite of a veggie first she asked what was wrong with the
meat.
Or give me two shirts and wearing one asking if I didn't like the other.
:)

Ya know, the fact that even now that you are retired, they are still
calling you in to work, does seem to indicate that they can't get along without you.

We have a big turn over in security.
We have some cushy jobs, like I have now, and we have some where one has
to actually do something.
People see someone sitting at desk doing nothing and think they will get
that sort of job right off then find out they have to actually do something. And you get people who want to do something and get stuck behind a desk for some reason.

There was still so much I wanted to see and places I wanted

to go but had only so much time (and money).

Just have to start saving now for the next trip.... :)

I keeping running across some area near where I was and would like to
visit and think "I wish I knew that then".

One doesn't need unlimited income to travel... just to be able to travel

without limits... :)

Yep.
Joe

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Quoting Joe Mackey to Nancy Backus on 10-16-19 06:59 <=-

Going beyond that to investments, one does have to be more careful.....

Its like the old joke, if you have ask how much something costs you
can't afford it.
The stock market is only for people who can afford to lose that
amount. I have some in the market and it keeps going up.
I invested several years ago and have never touched it. In fact, I
often even forget I have it. If the market would crash (ala 1929) I probably wouldn't even notice it gone --he wrote with his fingers
crossed, which is a hard way to type.--

(indeed! although not too much more awkward than regular two-finger
typing... [g]) Our investments are mostly in mutuals, which tend to be
set up for riding out the downturns... unless the entire world markets
crashed, but then we'd all be in trouble anyway.... :)

It depends on how one uses the credit card

I use mine sparingly and even then its only to keep it alive. And I
pay off the statement each month. Of course it has only a $200
limit...

You keep your credit rating alive that way, too... :) Using it that
way, it's essentially still just cash, only slightly deferred...

I don't want to get into the mess I did years ago. And then
that was a last resort.
I have always believed in cash only. If one can't afford something
save up for it. (Emergencies etc exempted)
I live as if its still 1932 in the depths of the depression and buy
only what is necessary.

Not so great for the economy, perhaps, but a lot safer for you... :)

People think its easy to warm a chair
but a lot of experience goes into that. :)

And a lot of good precious time, too.... ;)

Like the ball games. People think its easy but I have to force
myself to sample all the food available. Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings eating at one tail gate and not the other.

Yup, very important.... and not every one would understand that... ;)

For some reason I'm reminded of my mother with that remark.
She would have an entree, a couple of veggies, etc at a meal.
If you took a bite of a veggie first she asked what was wrong with
the meat.
Or give me two shirts and wearing one asking if I didn't like the
other. :)

Sounds just a little insecure, there... :) Or super-critical....

Ya know, the fact that even now that you are retired, they are still
calling you in to work, does seem to indicate that they can't get along without you.

We have a big turn over in security.
We have some cushy jobs, like I have now, and we have some where one
has to actually do something.
People see someone sitting at desk doing nothing and think they will
get that sort of job right off then find out they have to actually do something. And you get people who want to do something and get stuck behind a desk for some reason.

It's the way things go... :) And security isn't the cush job anyway,
really, unless one has stuck it out for a long while.... not surprising
that the turnover is what it is....

There was still so much I wanted to see and places I wanted
to go but had only so much time (and money).

Just have to start saving now for the next trip.... :)

I keeping running across some area near where I was and would like
to visit and think "I wish I knew that then".

Some things you only find out about when you are nearby... or do a lot
of research ahead of time... but one always does find more things than
there is time for on one trip... :)

One doesn't need unlimited income to travel... just to be able to travel without limits... :)

Yep.

As I said, time to start saving for the next trip... and planning for
all the further places to check out next trip.... :)

ttyl neb

... Friendship: People who know all about you but like you anyway.

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Hello NANCY!

** 25.10.19 - 10:31, NANCY BACKUS wrote to JOE MACKEY:

I use mine sparingly and even then its only to keep it alive. And I
pay off the statement each month. Of course it has only a $200
limit...

You keep your credit rating alive that way, too... :) Using it that
way, it's essentially still just cash, only slightly deferred...

Correction, it's really "just DEBT, only slightly deferred" <g>

If you want "CASH slightly deferred", you would need a negative balance on the credit card statement. I've done exactly that, albiet accidentally.
:( One time, I ended up paying TOO MUCH into my credit card account and ended up with a negative balance. A little bonus was that a negative interest was calculated in the mix too!



../|ug

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Nancy wrote --

The stock market is only for people who can afford to lose that
amount.

After I wrote the above, I was reminded of a boss I had once had.
He had some money in the stock market (not a high roller) and every time
it went up or down a point he was calling his broker.
In the late '80s the market was like a roller coaster up and down, up and down.
He tried calling his broker and after awhile was put on hold, then he
would go to the guys office. He was acting like it was 1929 all over again.
He was taking up so much of the brokers time that finally the broker told
him to go find someone else. :)

Our investments are mostly in mutuals,

I have my money divided between the regular market and muni's/bonds which
are safer. Smaller return but less risk of losing a lot.
I don't even remember what my stocks are for. Have to check with the
bank. I know they have been going upward steadily since '17. For several years before then they were rather flat.

I live as if its still 1932 in the depths of the depression and buy only

what is necessary.

Not so great for the economy, perhaps, but a lot safer for you... :)

There are many times I think I would like to go out to eat and talk
myself out of it remembering I have food at home.
Years ago I figured out if I saw something bright and shiny and just had
to have it, (never mind I didn't even know it even existed until then), that
if I were able to live three days without it (unless a necessity like food, shelter, etc) I probably didn't

Yup, very important.... and not every one would understand that... ;)

This last Saturday I forced myself to not hurt a lot of people's
feelings. :)
I wasn't stuffing myself out of greed, but not to offend. (That's my
story and I'm sticking to it!)

security isn't the cush job anyway, really, unless one has stuck it out for a

long while

I figure I have put in my time and paid my dues. :)
And what I do now I almost feel ashamed to take the money. Almost.
But like I tell others I'm only only thinking of the boss and not
wanting to upset his bookkeeping. :)

As I said, time to start saving for the next trip... and planning for
all the further places to check out next trip.... :)

I would like my next trip to be the same length, (30+ days) but going to fewer places and staying longer.
Joe
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Quoting August Abolins to Nancy Backus on 10-26-19 20:21 <=-

I use mine sparingly and even then its only to keep it alive. And I
pay off the statement each month. Of course it has only a $200
limit...

You keep your credit rating alive that way, too... :) Using it that
way, it's essentially still just cash, only slightly deferred...

Correction, it's really "just DEBT, only slightly deferred" <g>

No, I said it correctly.... although I suppose it would be clearer had I
said "still just paying cash, only slightly deferred".... The point
being, that if one pays off the entire balance by the due date, one
isn't charged any interest, so it never really registers as a proper
loan... paying in cash is just deferred until the statement arrives and
one pays that then to the card company...

If you want "CASH slightly deferred", you would need a negative
balance on the credit card statement. I've done exactly that, albiet accidentally. :( One time, I ended up paying TOO MUCH into my
credit card account and ended up with a negative balance. A little
bonus was that a negative interest was calculated in the mix too!

I guess you did get some extra cash that way.... :) Another way to get
extra cash from the card is when it generates cash rebates, for any
payments made through it... Again, when one pays off the balance in full
when the statement comes, the rebate costs you nothing... of course,
that new cash isn't generating anything more for you, until/unless you
redeem it into a savings account or an interest-bearing checking
account...

ttyl neb

... I'm for helping the elderly. I'm going to be old myself, some day.

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Hello NANCY!

** 31.10.19 - 19:16, NANCY BACKUS wrote to AUGUST ABOLINS:

Quoting August Abolins to Nancy Backus on 10-26-19 20:21 <=-

Correction, it's really "just DEBT, only slightly deferred" <g>

No, I said it correctly.... although I suppose it would be clearer had I
said "still just paying cash, only slightly deferred".... The point
being, that if one pays off the entire balance by the due date, one
isn't charged any interest, so it never really registers as a proper
loan... paying in cash is just deferred until the statement arrives and
one pays that then to the card company...

Let me put my original thought another way. If you currently have a zero balance on your CC account, then you have NO CASH. The moment you use the card, you create a DEBT on hand, not CASH on hand. All you created was a
DEBT deferred. You have 20 or 30 days to round up the cash from someplace else to pay it off. The credit card companies do not give you cash. They give you the privilege of having a temporary DEBT. ;)

Any use of the card DOES trigger a registration of debt. All you have to
do is look at the way the credit-reporting services record it. If you pay
on time all they do is NOT report any deliquency. But there IS an original DEBT the moment you use the card.

I use the cards for the privilege of "paying it off later". I may not necessarily have the necessary cash for a particular purchase AT THAT
MOMENT, but I could have the money rounded up and transferred to the necessary bank in a week or two later.

I also take advantage of the point-99 percent and currently one of the
recent ZERO PERCENT offers. I "pay off" some of the higher interest
bearing accounts. Then I pace my payments in such a way as to pay off
that newly borrowed money by the time the offer expires.

I currently have a new point-99-percent offer "for six months", and 0-
percent offer "for 12 months"! Very tempting.

.. One time, I ended up paying TOO MUCH into my credit card account
and ended up with a negative balance. A little bonus was that a
negative interest was calculated in the mix too!

I guess you did get some extra cash that way.... :)

Yes. I found out that I could technically "bank" my money in the CC
account. My CC cards are all no-yearly-fee types so anything I put
towards the negative balance STAYS negative (and/or grows slightly more negative when they factor in the interest.)

Another way to get extra cash from the card is when it generates cash
rebates, for any payments made through it... Again, when one pays off
the balance in full when the statement comes, the rebate costs you
nothing... of course, that new cash isn't generating anything more for
you, until/unless you redeem it into a savings account or an interest-
bearing checking account...

I have a couple of those cash-generating cards too. I just let that
amount go towards paying off any debt genrated from using the cards. At
only point-5 percent, it only adds up to $200 or so per year between the
both of them.


../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.40
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Quoting Joe Mackey to Nancy Backus on 10-28-19 06:35 <=-

The stock market is only for people who can afford to lose that
amount.

After I wrote the above, I was reminded of a boss I had once had.
He had some money in the stock market (not a high roller) and every
time it went up or down a point he was calling his broker.
In the late '80s the market was like a roller coaster up and down,
up and down.

Too bad he never learned the lesson that the best way to deal with the
market is to mostly ignore the ups and downs...

He tried calling his broker and after awhile was put on hold, then
he would go to the guys office. He was acting like it was 1929 all
over again. He was taking up so much of the brokers time that
finally the broker told him to go find someone else. :)

I don't blame that broker much at all.... probably he couldn't get your
boss to just chill... <G> The thing about the crash in 1929 was that it
wasn't expected, and happened fast... partly, I think, because of
overreacting on the part of the stockholders... So what he was doing
was actually more likely to precipitate a crisis than just riding it
out... ;)

Our investments are mostly in mutuals,

I have my money divided between the regular market and muni's/bonds
which are safer. Smaller return but less risk of losing a lot.
I don't even remember what my stocks are for. Have to check with
the bank. I know they have been going upward steadily since '17. For several years before then they were rather flat.

The mutuals are essentially bundles of stocks, managed by people that supposedly know what they are doing... the ones we have now are with a
company that has done pretty well at managing our money... some years
they've done better than others, but overall we've not lost money on
them....

I live as if its still 1932 in the depths of the depression
and buy only what is necessary.

Not so great for the economy, perhaps, but a lot safer for you... :)

There are many times I think I would like to go out to eat and talk
myself out of it remembering I have food at home.

We aren't quite that spartan... sometimes what factors in more is the
energy level for fixing the meal... ;)

Years ago I figured out if I saw something bright and shiny and just
had to have it, (never mind I didn't even know it even existed until then), that if I were able to live three days without it (unless a necessity like food, shelter, etc) I probably didn't

(dropped out again... probably "need it after all"?) Yup, the wait time
does let you know if you really want or need it or were just being manipulated... Most of those bright and shiny things aren't worth it...

Yup, very important.... and not every one would understand that... ;)

This last Saturday I forced myself to not hurt a lot of people's
feelings. :)
I wasn't stuffing myself out of greed, but not to offend. (That's
my story and I'm sticking to it!)

Ok... sounds plausible enough... <G>

security isn't the cush job anyway, really, unless one has stuck it
out for a long while

I figure I have put in my time and paid my dues. :)
And what I do now I almost feel ashamed to take the money. Almost.
But like I tell others I'm only only thinking of the boss and not
wanting to upset his bookkeeping. :)

But of course... :)

As I said, time to start saving for the next trip... and planning for
all the further places to check out next trip.... :)

I would like my next trip to be the same length, (30+ days) but
going to fewer places and staying longer.

And now that you've done it once, you'll have a better way to plan
things out... what worked and what didn't.... :)

ttyl neb

... "All constants are variables." - Murphy's Law of Mathematics

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Nancy wrote --

Too bad he never learned the lesson that the best way to deal with the
market is to mostly ignore the ups and downs...

Its like being on a roller coaster. If you don't like ups and downs,
fast rides and quick curves, don't get on.

I don't blame that broker much at all.... probably he couldn't get your
boss to just chill... <G> The thing about the crash in 1929 was that it

wasn't expected, and happened fast... partly, I think, because of

overreacting on the part of the stockholders...

Another factor was people buying on margin, where with 10 per cent down
they could buy a share (or multiple shares) of stock with the promise to pay the full amount later.
Some people couldn't afford the other 90 per cent (or hoping to cash in
the dividends to pay for it) and came up short when the margins were called for.
(That was changed later and now one must pay the full price of the share
up front).
Then you have the domino effect where investors panic at the least bit of
bad news (which they still do*) and sell which causes a ripple effect where
the value of the stock falls even more.
(*All one has to do is keep up on the news where the market will fall
100s of points over some trivial matter, then bounce back in the following days.)
Something similar (in reverse) happened in the '70s with inflation.
You buy something at 50 cents yesterday and today its 75 cents and people will start buying up a lot of whatever, which causes a shortage which causes prices to go up more (supply and demand).
People would buy stuff they might not need because tomorrow it will cost more. Remember the toilet paper panic? Someone mentioned jokingly it was
in short supply so people cleared the shelves and actually caused shortages. (It was been attributed to John
I remember buying extra of some thing's knowing it would be more the next time, if the store had it.

So what he was doing was actually more likely to precipitate a crisis than

just riding it out... ;)

As Bette Davis said in All About Eve, "Fasten your seat belts, its gonna
be a bumpy ride".

talk myself out of it remembering I have food at home.

We aren't quite that spartan... sometimes what factors in more is the
energy level for fixing the meal... ;)

I have simple tastes in food. I like big meals and all but I am just as happy with a bowl of corn flakes as I am with a big juicy steak. To me food
is just fuel for the body.
Of course the type of fuel one uses is important, either good food or
junk food. Good food is better.

necessity like food, shelter, etc) I probably didn't

(dropped out again... probably "need it after all"?)

Yeah, or something along that line.

But like I tell others I'm only only thinking of the boss and not wanting to upset his bookkeeping. :)

But of course... :)

I like to think of myself as being thoughtful of others... ==adjusting
halo==

And now that you've done it once, you'll have a better way to plan
things out... what worked and what didn't.... :)

One thing I did do that I always wanted to do was stop and check things
out. In the past it was always "the next time" I was in some area.
Joe
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Quoting August Abolins to Nancy Backus on 11-01-19 00:43 <=-

Correction, it's really "just DEBT, only slightly deferred" <g>

No, I said it correctly.... although I suppose it would be clearer had
I said "still just paying cash, only slightly deferred".... The point
being, that if one pays off the entire balance by the due date, one
isn't charged any interest, so it never really registers as a proper
loan... paying in cash is just deferred until the statement arrives
and one pays that then to the card company...

Let me put my original thought another way. If you currently have a
zero balance on your CC account, then you have NO CASH. The moment
you use the card, you create a DEBT on hand, not CASH on hand. All
you created was a DEBT deferred. You have 20 or 30 days to round up
the cash from someplace else to pay it off. The credit card
companies do not give you cash. They give you the privilege of having
a temporary DEBT. ;)

Ok... I said it right for what I was trying to say.... you said it right
for what you were trying to say.... but they are actually two different things.... I was emphasizing the fact that you are merely deferring the
time when you would pay cash for the item/service... You are emphasizing
that if the cash isn't paid when the statement shows up it is in fact a debt....

Any use of the card DOES trigger a registration of debt. All you have
to do is look at the way the credit-reporting services record it. If
you pay on time all they do is NOT report any deliquency. But there
IS an original DEBT the moment you use the card.

And that is why the credit reporting companies want you to use the
cards, so that there is a record of the fact that money has changed
hands, and that you are responsible enough that you will pay off any
presumed debt.... If one pays off the entire balance every time, it
isn't really a debt, just a deferred payment.... Paying just the
minimum, or only a portion of the amount that shows up on the statement
does make it become a debt, which gets paid off over time....

I use the cards for the privilege of "paying it off later". I may not necessarily have the necessary cash for a particular purchase AT THAT MOMENT, but I could have the money rounded up and transferred to the necessary bank in a week or two later.

I'd put through something that I actually had the cash on hand for on a
card, just for the credit report, and also, in most cases, to earn
rebates... which are a way to gain cash from the card company....

I also take advantage of the point-99 percent and currently one of the recent ZERO PERCENT offers. I "pay off" some of the higher interest bearing accounts. Then I pace my payments in such a way as to pay
off that newly borrowed money by the time the offer expires.

I currently have no balances that are generating interest on them... The
last one I had was transferred to one with zero percent for over a
year... by the time it expires, I will have paid the whole thing off...
and I'll agree that that one is a debt of sorts...

I currently have a new point-99-percent offer "for six months", and 0- percent offer "for 12 months"! Very tempting.

Especially if you do have anything that you are paying interest on
now... :) Although, the balance transfer fee is an interest payment of sorts... but probably less than you'd be paying in regular interest.... :)

.. One time, I ended up paying TOO MUCH into my credit card account
and ended up with a negative balance. A little bonus was that a
negative interest was calculated in the mix too!

I guess you did get some extra cash that way.... :)

Yes. I found out that I could technically "bank" my money in the CC account. My CC cards are all no-yearly-fee types so anything I put towards the negative balance STAYS negative (and/or grows slightly
more negative when they factor in the interest.)

I don't even look at any cards that charge an annual fee... :) I'm a
little surprised that the cards are letting you keep a negative
balance... most of them would send you a check for the balance if you
didn't charge something more to get a "proper" balance on the card....

Another way to get extra cash from the card is when it generates cash
rebates, for any payments made through it... Again, when one pays off
the balance in full when the statement comes, the rebate costs you
nothing... of course, that new cash isn't generating anything more for
you, until/unless you redeem it into a savings account or an interest-
bearing checking account...

I have a couple of those cash-generating cards too. I just let that amount go towards paying off any debt generated from using the cards.
At only point-5 percent, it only adds up to $200 or so per year
between the both of them.

I don't actually use my cards all that much, but I'm getting 2% rebates
on two of them and 1-5% (depending on categories) on the other one...

ttyl neb

... I've repeatedly reiterated, again and again, don't be redundant.

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Nancy wrote to Aug --

I currently have no balances that are generating interest on them...

Same here.
When a charge is posted I pay it before I have to start paying interest, i.e., I pay it off each month that I use it.
Banks and CC companies hate people like us since they aren't earning any interest on a balance. :)
Joe
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Hello NANCY!

** 06.11.19 - 21:51, NANCY BACKUS wrote to AUGUST ABOLINS:

Any use of the card DOES trigger a registration of debt. All you have
to do is look at the way the credit-reporting services record it..

And that is why the credit reporting companies want you to use the
cards, so that there is a record of the fact that money has changed
hands, and that you are responsible enough that you will pay off any
presumed debt.... If one pays off the entire balance every time, it
isn't really a debt, just a deferred payment..

Drop by your favorit Equifax or equivalent. Every "use" of a credit card
is recorded as a debt.

We convince ourselves that "it isn't really a debt" only because the institutions provide a "grace period". But they don't HAVE to do that. The original transation is recorded as a debt transaction. And.. *that* only applies to purchases. If on the other hand you draw out a "cash advance", interest starts calculating immediately. :(

It is very wise to make sure your payment reaches them before the due
date. However, if you read the small print of your credit card statement
they define the use of the card as a debt. And they reserve the right to expect full payment at any time.

But no matter the different way we define the transaction, it sounds like
you have the use of it very well under control. And that's great!


../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.40
* Origin: /|ug's Point, Ont. CANADA (2:221/1.58)

Quoting Joe Mackey to Nancy Backus on 11-04-19 06:41 <=-

Too bad he never learned the lesson that the best way to deal with the market is to mostly ignore the ups and downs...

Its like being on a roller coaster. If you don't like ups and
downs, fast rides and quick curves, don't get on.

That's why I avoid roller coasters and their like... but will ride the
Ferris Wheel.... those ups and downs are more predictable, and easier to
deal with.... ;)

I don't blame that broker much at all.... probably he couldn't get your
boss to just chill... <G> The thing about the crash in 1929 was that it wasn't expected, and happened fast... partly, I think, because of overreacting on the part of the stockholders...

Another factor was people buying on margin, where with 10 per cent
down they could buy a share (or multiple shares) of stock with the
promise to pay the full amount later.
Some people couldn't afford the other 90 per cent (or hoping to cash
in the dividends to pay for it) and came up short when the margins were called for.
(That was changed later and now one must pay the full price of the
share up front).

That was indeed a risky business, unless one actually had the full
amount tucked away... Another form of gambling....

Then you have the domino effect where investors panic at the least
bit of bad news (which they still do*) and sell which causes a ripple effect where the value of the stock falls even more.
(*All one has to do is keep up on the news where the market will
fall 100s of points over some trivial matter, then bounce back in the following days.)

Yup, I've seen that.... those in particular are the ones to try to ride
out, since almost inevitably the value will bounce back... One might
even want to buy when the stock has fallen some.... although that does
take more attention to the market than I'm willing to maintain...

Something similar (in reverse) happened in the '70s with inflation.
You buy something at 50 cents yesterday and today its 75 cents and
people will start buying up a lot of whatever, which causes a shortage which causes prices to go up more (supply and demand).

Yup.

People would buy stuff they might not need because tomorrow it will
cost more.

I've done that with buying stamps... the Forever stamps won't require additional postage when the rates go up, so I'll stock up when I know
there's a rate hike coming....

Remember the toilet paper panic? Someone mentioned
jokingly it was in short supply so people cleared the shelves and
actually caused shortages. (It was been attributed to John

John who...? [g]

I remember buying extra of some thing's knowing it would be more the
next time, if the store had it.

A lot of things, especially paper products like toilet paper and paper
towels, we tend to buy in bulk, even when we know we don't use them all
that fast, just because it's generally less expensive that way per roll
or whatever, and we'll have it in stock even if the store runs out... ;)

talk myself out of it remembering I have food at home.

We aren't quite that spartan... sometimes what factors in more is the
energy level for fixing the meal... ;)

I have simple tastes in food. I like big meals and all but I am
just as happy with a bowl of corn flakes as I am with a big juicy
steak. To me food is just fuel for the body.
Of course the type of fuel one uses is important, either good food
or junk food. Good food is better.

Absolutely.... :)

But like I tell others I'm only only thinking of the boss and not wanting to upset his bookkeeping. :)

But of course... :)

I like to think of myself as being thoughtful of others...
==adjusting halo==

Careful there... you don't want the horns to show.... <G>

And now that you've done it once, you'll have a better way to plan
things out... what worked and what didn't.... :)

One thing I did do that I always wanted to do was stop and check
things out. In the past it was always "the next time" I was in some
area.

So this time you did the "next time" as part of the trip... :) Finally
found that round tuit.... ;)

ttyl neb

... I've found a great way to start the day - I go straight back to bed!

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Nancy wrote --

Yup, I've seen that.... those in particular are the ones to try to ride
out, since almost inevitably the value will bounce back... One might
even want to buy when the stock has fallen some

There are some people who make money that way.
When their stock starts falling by natural or man made causes* they sell
and when it bottoms out they buy up a lot of shares at the lower price. (*There are stories of people deliberately dumping stocks to make the value fall ("everyone's selling, there mu
I've never been that good with money or math to fully understand how to do/take advantage of something like that. Or how to keep a second set of books. A lot of times in crime/drama/mysteries someone has two sets of books, dummy companies, etc.

Remember the toilet paper panic? Someone mentioned
jokingly it was in short supply so people cleared the shelves and actually caused shortages. (It was been attributed to John

John who...? [g]

Johnny Carson. He made some remark in a monologue about a toilet paper shortage and inadvertently actually caused a shortage when people cleared the shelves of it in panic.
I have heard this actually happened and I have heard it was a urban
legend. But I do remember when there were shortages. Not empty shelves but stores low on supply from a sudden large demand.

A lot of things, especially paper products like toilet paper and paper towels, we tend to buy in bulk, even when we know we don't use them all
that fast, just because it's generally less expensive that way per roll
or whatever, and we'll have it in stock even if the store runs out...

I don't have a lot of room to store a lot of things. :)
I had a cat with a delicate tummy who would throw up some foods she ate
(not all the time and not just that one kind of food). I brought a three
roll pack of paper towels in 2002. I still have most of one roll left. (Molly died years ago).
Unless some particularly nasty spill/mess I use a rag and water.

==adjusting halo==

Careful there... you don't want the horns to show.... <G>

Me? Ma'am methinks you have me confused with someone else. :)

One thing I did do that I always wanted to do was stop and check
things out. In the past it was always "the next time" I was in some

area.

So this time you did the "next time" as part of the trip... :) Finally
found that round tuit.... ;)

Yep. :)
Joe
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Quoting Joe Mackey to Nancy Backus on 11-07-19 08:23 <=-

Nancy wrote to Aug --

I currently have no balances that are generating interest on them...

Same here.
When a charge is posted I pay it before I have to start paying
interest, i.e., I pay it off each month that I use it.

Which is the safe way to be using credit... :)

Banks and CC companies hate people like us since they aren't earning
any interest on a balance. :)

Not really... they don't hate us because we at least are generating fees
at the business where we use their cards... and they get to run our
money through their systems.... Which is why they also try to lure us in
with the rebates and such... :) It can be a mostly win-win situation
for both the customer and the bank/cc company.... And the business gets
the customer's business even if it does cost them something....

ttyl neb

... Of course I have backups. Wanna see last year or before?

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Quoting August Abolins to Nancy Backus on 11-07-19 20:06 <=-

Any use of the card DOES trigger a registration of debt. All you have
to do is look at the way the credit-reporting services record it..

And that is why the credit reporting companies want you to use the
cards, so that there is a record of the fact that money has changed
hands, and that you are responsible enough that you will pay off any
presumed debt.... If one pays off the entire balance every time, it
isn't really a debt, just a deferred payment..

Drop by your favorite Equifax or equivalent. Every "use" of a credit
card is recorded as a debt.
We convince ourselves that "it isn't really a debt" only because the institutions provide a "grace period". But they don't HAVE to do that.
The original transaction is recorded as a debt transaction.

We are arguing semantics here.... Any institution that wouldn't give me
the "grace period" wouldn't have my business anyway, along with those
that charge an annual fee... I have plenty of choices, so can and do
pick and choose... :)

And.. *that* only applies to purchases. If on the other hand you draw
out a "cash advance", interest starts calculating immediately. :(

Which is why I don't use the "cash advance" feature, as that one is by
any standard an immediate debt...

It is very wise to make sure your payment reaches them before the due date. However, if you read the small print of your credit card
statement they define the use of the card as a debt. And they reserve
the right to expect full payment at any time.

But that is generally because of the lack of payment on time by the consumer.... not something that they'd actually get away with doing in actuality... And they know full well that in most cases, it would result
in the customer defaulting on the debt, and them not getting anything...

But no matter the different way we define the transaction, it sounds
like you have the use of it very well under control. And that's
great!

I've definitely learned over the years how to manage my money... :)

ttyl neb

... Despite my promising abilities as a beach bum I got a job.

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Nancy wrote --

for both the customer and the bank/cc company.... And the business gets
the customer's business even if it does cost them something....

Actually, its not costing a lot of companies anything, since those
expected charges are passed along to the consumer.
Its like taxes.
Some people call on businesses to pay more. But those taxes they are "paying" are passed along in higher costs of whatever they are selling so the customer is paying the taxes in hidden costs. (A penny here, a penny there
on this or that).
Joe


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Nancy wrote to Aug --

Which is why I don't use the "cash advance" feature, as that one is by
any standard an immediate debt...

The only cash back I use is with my debit card.
On my trip I stopped in a big box store (if I couldn't find a branch of
my bank) to buy something then get like $100 back. That was for small purchases here and there.
But then there are no charges for cash back with the debit card with my
bank.
Joe
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Hello NANCY!

** 06.11.19 - 21:51, NANCY BACKUS wrote to AUGUST ABOLINS:

I don't even look at any cards that charge an annual fee... :) I'm a
little surprised that the cards are letting you keep a negative
balance... most of them would send you a check for the balance if you
didn't charge something more to get a "proper" balance on the card....

A recent example since the month of August,

11/01/2019 11/04/2019 CPC SCP/D195017342 OTTAWA ON 9495 $14.66
08/25/2019 10/22/2019 PURCHASE ADJUSTMENT 9767 -$125.16
08/25/2019 10/22/2019 INTEREST REFUND -$1.16

Lately, the card gets a lot of activity, so it wouldn't stay in the
negative for very long this time. However, a negative interest is a gain.


../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.40
* Origin: /|ug's Point, Ont. CANADA (2:221/1.58)

Quoting Joe Mackey to Nancy Backus on 11-11-19 07:49 <=-

Yup, I've seen that.... those in particular are the ones to try to ride
out, since almost inevitably the value will bounce back... One might
even want to buy when the stock has fallen some

There are some people who make money that way.
When their stock starts falling by natural or man made causes* they
sell and when it bottoms out they buy up a lot of shares at the lower price.

Exactly.... and then as the stock value increases again, they end up
ahead... :)

(*There are stories of people deliberately dumping stocks to
make the value fall ("everyone's selling, there mu

(You chopped again.. "must be something wrong with that stock"?) Yes,
I've heard of such.... I suppose it's technically legal, but it seems
somewhat wrong to me... :)

I've never been that good with money or math to fully understand how
to do/take advantage of something like that. Or how to keep a second
set of books. A lot of times in crime/drama/mysteries someone has two sets of books, dummy companies, etc.

That just seems like so much extra unnecessary work to me...

Remember the toilet paper panic? Someone mentioned
jokingly it was in short supply so people cleared the shelves and actually caused shortages. (It was been attributed to John

John who...? [g]

Johnny Carson. He made some remark in a monologue about a toilet
paper shortage and inadvertently actually caused a shortage when people cleared the shelves of it in panic.
I have heard this actually happened and I have heard it was a urban legend. But I do remember when there were shortages. Not empty
shelves but stores low on supply from a sudden large demand.

Probably happened once, anyway... but probably also not a regular
recurrence... A lot of things could play into low on supply... including
rumors of storms.... :)

A lot of things, especially paper products like toilet paper and paper towels, we tend to buy in bulk, even when we know we don't use them all
that fast, just because it's generally less expensive that way per roll
or whatever, and we'll have it in stock even if the store runs out...

I don't have a lot of room to store a lot of things. :)

We find room.... <G>

I had a cat with a delicate tummy who would throw up some foods she
ate (not all the time and not just that one kind of food). I brought a three roll pack of paper towels in 2002. I still have most of one roll left. (Molly died years ago).
Unless some particularly nasty spill/mess I use a rag and water.

We do use paper towels a bit more often... not like some people,
though... I don't buy paper napkins, as we'll use the paper towels
instead... My sister made lots of cloth napkins and she just washes them
over and over, but that's another choice that can cost in other ways...

One thing I did do that I always wanted to do was stop and check
things out. In the past it was always "the next time" I was in
some area.

So this time you did the "next time" as part of the trip... :) Finally found that round tuit.... ;)

Yep. :)

And now you can use it for the next trip as well... <G>

ttyl neb

... Even the Borg won't assimilate Windows!

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Nancy wrote --

(*There are stories of people deliberately dumping stocks to
make the value fall ("everyone's selling, there mu

(You chopped again.. "must be something wrong with that stock"?)

Pretty much.

I've heard of such.... I suppose it's technically legal, but it seems somewhat wrong to me... :)

There's probably a law against it, but not sure.
The buyer could also have it in others names but have access to it.

A lot of times in crime/drama/mysteries someone has two
sets of books, dummy companies, etc.

That just seems like so much extra unnecessary work to me...

Same here.
I sometimes have trouble keeping one set of books in balance. :)

legend. But I do remember when there were shortages. Not empty
shelves but stores low on supply from a sudden large demand.

Probably happened once, anyway... but probably also not a regular recurrence... A lot of things could play into low on supply... including

rumors of storms.... :)

I vividly remember the mid '70s and early '80s when inflation was raging (remember WIN: Whip Inflation Now?).
Prices were going up faster than pay and people were stocking up on all
sorts of things, which only caused more shortages, because if you don't buy
it now, it'll cost more later.
That was one reason for rationing during the war. To keep people from hoarding and such.

We do use paper towels a bit more often... not like some people,
though... I don't buy paper napkins, as we'll use the paper towels
instead... My sister made lots of cloth napkins and she just washes them over

and over, but that's another choice that can cost in other ways...

At work when I wash my hands I reuse that paper towel at my desk at
lunch, or for other reasons I might need a paper towel.
I can't see using some then to dry my hands and later more as a towel.
I use cloth towels for all sorts of things and those can be used many
times.
Paper towels are only for the messiest clean ups.
Joe
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Quoting Joe Mackey to Nancy Backus on 11-21-19 06:17 <=-

(*There are stories of people deliberately dumping stocks to
make the value fall ("everyone's selling, there mu

(You chopped again.. "must be something wrong with that stock"?)

Pretty much.

I've heard of such.... I suppose it's technically legal, but it seems somewhat wrong to me... :)

There's probably a law against it, but not sure.
The buyer could also have it in others names but have access to it.

There's a lot of high-falutin business deals that I really can't quite
wrap the head around... Probably is some sort of law against
deliberately dumping stock to make the price drop, but I imagine that it
might be hard to prove it being deliberate...

A lot of times in crime/drama/mysteries someone has two
sets of books, dummy companies, etc.

That just seems like so much extra unnecessary work to me...

Same here.
I sometimes have trouble keeping one set of books in balance. :)

I can handle one set of books ok... so far, at least... ;)

legend. But I do remember when there were shortages. Not empty shelves but stores low on supply from a sudden large demand.

Probably happened once, anyway... but probably also not a regular recurrence... A lot of things could play into low on supply... including rumors of storms.... :)

I vividly remember the mid '70s and early '80s when inflation was
raging (remember WIN: Whip Inflation Now?).

Yeah... too bad it takes more than just catchy slogans to fix things...

Prices were going up faster than pay and people were stocking up on
all sorts of things, which only caused more shortages, because if you don't buy it now, it'll cost more later.
That was one reason for rationing during the war. To keep people
from hoarding and such.

We do use paper towels a bit more often... not like some people,
though... I don't buy paper napkins, as we'll use the paper towels instead... My sister made lots of cloth napkins and she just washes them over and over, but that's another choice that can cost in other ways...

At work when I wash my hands I reuse that paper towel at my desk at
lunch, or for other reasons I might need a paper towel.

We do reuse the paper towels... One used as a napkin will be used for
days, until it is getting too soiled, then it will be used for some mess
before being tossed... :)

I can't see using some then to dry my hands and later more as a
towel. I use cloth towels for all sorts of things and those can be
used many times.
Paper towels are only for the messiest clean ups.

We each make our choices as to how to do things like that.... :)

ttyl neb

... Me, indecisive? I'm not sure about that.

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Nancy wrote --

There's probably a law against it, but not sure.
The buyer could also have it in others names but have access to it.

There's a lot of high-falutin business deals that I really can't quite
wrap the head around... Probably is some sort of law against
deliberately dumping stock to make the price drop, but I imagine that it

might be hard to prove it being deliberate...

I'm sure with the gov't keeping records of everything they might notice
an unusual amount of selling and buying on the part of some person or
company.
I don't have the head for figures and things like that.
I can do simple bookkeeping but usually when numbers are floated around
my eyes sort of glaze over and I drift off into dreamland. :)
I am, and have been, on various groups where a multi-page financial
report is given and just go with the flow. :)
(The exception would be if something really strange had happened).
Personally I have no problems with a budget. X amount coming in, Y
amount spent, Z amount left over. So long as Z is more than Y I'm happy. :)
Joe

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Quoting Joe Mackey to Nancy Backus on 11-29-19 05:20 <=-

There's probably a law against it, but not sure.
The buyer could also have it in others names but have access to it.

There's a lot of high-falutin business deals that I really can't quite
wrap the head around... Probably is some sort of law against
deliberately dumping stock to make the price drop, but I imagine that
it might be hard to prove it being deliberate...

I'm sure with the gov't keeping records of everything they might
notice an unusual amount of selling and buying on the part of some
person or company.

They might notice, and they might question... but I still dunno if they
could prove it was a deliberate attempt to influence the market... like
your old boss that kept wanting to sell at a whim/worry....

I don't have the head for figures and things like that.
I can do simple bookkeeping but usually when numbers are floated
around my eyes sort of glaze over and I drift off into dreamland. :)
I am, and have been, on various groups where a multi-page financial
report is given and just go with the flow. :)
(The exception would be if something really strange had happened).

Not everyone is comfortable around numbers and finances... :) As long
as the treasurer is on the up and up, and keeps reasonably good
accounts, there shouldn't be anything to worry about in their reports...

Personally I have no problems with a budget. X amount coming in, Y
amount spent, Z amount left over. So long as Z is more than Y I'm
happy. :)

I'd even settle for Z being positive... ;) Or is that what you
meant.... :) X being more than Y... :)

ttyl neb

... In an alternate universe, I make sense!

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Nancy wrote --

I'm sure with the gov't keeping records of everything they might
notice an unusual amount of selling and buying on the part of some person or company.

They might notice, and they might question... but I still dunno if they
could prove it was a deliberate attempt to influence the market... like
your old boss that kept wanting to sell at a whim/worry....

If "small" transactions it might not be red flagged, but if someone is shifting hundreds or thousands of shares, I'm sure someone, somewhere, somehow would notice.
But not a worry of mine. :)

Not everyone is comfortable around numbers and finances... :) As long
as the treasurer is on the up and up, and keeps reasonably good
accounts, there shouldn't be anything to worry about in their reports...

I think the more basic the better.
I'm involved in a organisation and at the monthly, uh, "board meeting" at
one time the financial report had dozens and dozens of sub-sub-sub accounts. It was all very confusing. I'm sure at one time there was a purpose for all these sub accounts.
Now with a new system we can see the income/outgo, sources, etc.
Before my eyes sort of glazed over and I went into a mini-trance but now
they are more informative.
Joe
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Quoting Joe Mackey to Nancy Backus on 12-04-19 06:00 <=-

I'm sure with the gov't keeping records of everything they might
notice an unusual amount of selling and buying on the part of some person or company.

They might notice, and they might question... but I still dunno if they could prove it was a deliberate attempt to influence the market... like
your old boss that kept wanting to sell at a whim/worry....

If "small" transactions it might not be red flagged, but if someone
is shifting hundreds or thousands of shares, I'm sure someone,
somewhere, somehow would notice.

Probably...

But not a worry of mine. :)

Right, nor of mine... :)

Not everyone is comfortable around numbers and finances... :) As long
as the treasurer is on the up and up, and keeps reasonably good
accounts, there shouldn't be anything to worry about in their reports...

I think the more basic the better.
I'm involved in a organisation and at the monthly, uh, "board
meeting" at one time the financial report had dozens and dozens of sub-sub-sub accounts. It was all very confusing. I'm sure at one time there was a purpose for all these sub accounts.

Possibly even someone listening to the report in a now long ago time had
asked for the additional breakdown of the various accounts... And some organisations are inherently more complicated than others...

Now with a new system we can see the income/outgo, sources, etc.
Before my eyes sort of glazed over and I went into a mini-trance but
now they are more informative.

I'll agree that reports should be both as streamlined and as informative
as possible.... :)

ttyl neb

... Everyone is ignorant. It just depends on the subject.

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Nancy wrote --

Possibly even someone listening to the report in a now long ago time had

asked for the additional breakdown of the various accounts

I was on this same "board" about 25 years ago and always dreaded when the finances were presented. We had one or two members who wanted to know where every single penny went and for how much, etc. They made bank auditors look slip-shod.
I don't recall the details, since I was usually in my mini trance at the
time but it would often take an hour to go over the budget.
Now its more like 15 minutes. Often less.
Those meetings also often ran for two or three hours now its an hour to
an hour and 15 minutes. When I was first asked to run again I recalled those long hours and my first response was no way. :)
But next month ends my three year term. <vbg>
Joe
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Quoting Joe Mackey to Nancy Backus on 12-10-19 05:48 <=-

Possibly even someone listening to the report in a now long ago time
had asked for the additional breakdown of the various accounts

I was on this same "board" about 25 years ago and always dreaded
when the finances were presented. We had one or two members who wanted
to know where every single penny went and for how much, etc. They made bank auditors look slip-shod.

Had I been the treasurer, I might have been tempted to suggest they run
for treasurer themselves, so as to satisfy their curiousity
first-hand... Perhaps a term or two might have trimmed their sails just
a bit... ;)

I don't recall the details, since I was usually in my mini trance at
the time but it would often take an hour to go over the budget.
Now its more like 15 minutes. Often less.

Perhaps the nitpickers are also not there any more...?

Those meetings also often ran for two or three hours now its an hour
to an hour and 15 minutes.

That's also progress... ;)

When I was first asked to run again I recalled those long hours and
my first response was no way. :)
But next month ends my three year term. <vbg>

And will you be able to stay off the board for another 25 years after
that...? <G>

ttyl neb

... Sir, am I to understand that you people sell dead, fried birds here?

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Nancy wrote --

wanted to know where every single penny went and for how much, etc.

They made bank auditors look slip-shod.

Had I been the treasurer, I might have been tempted to suggest they run
for treasurer themselves, so as to satisfy their curiousity
first-hand

I think a time or two that was suggested by others. :)
There was this one guy who would say "I have a question..." and others
around the table would groan/sigh, sometimes audibly, mostly with facial expressions and eye rolling and lowering of heads. :)

Now its more like 15 minutes. Often less.

Perhaps the nitpickers are also not there any more...?

Most of them have gone to that great financial report questioning in the
sky. :)

Those meetings also often ran for two or three hours now its an hour to

an hour and 15 minutes.

That's also progress... ;)

Unless it is something of great importance most meetings (of any kind) shouldn't be more than 90 minutes.

But next month ends my three year term. <vbg>

And will you be able to stay off the board for another 25 years after that...? <G>

Maybe abother three years.
I would like to have younger people on the "board" than just a bunch of
gray hairs sitting around. Give them some responsibility and a sense of belonging. Too often its the same ones who rotate on and off, on and off, on and off.
Joe
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Quoting Joe Mackey to Nancy Backus on 12-20-19 05:05 <=-

wanted to know where every single penny went and for how much,
etc. They made bank auditors look slip-shod.

Had I been the treasurer, I might have been tempted to suggest they run
for treasurer themselves, so as to satisfy their curiousity first-hand

I think a time or two that was suggested by others. :)
There was this one guy who would say "I have a question..." and
others around the table would groan/sigh, sometimes audibly, mostly
with facial expressions and eye rolling and lowering of heads. :)

I had a brother in law like that... I tried to keep my eye-rolling to a minimum.... or at least not too awfully obvious.... <G>

Now its more like 15 minutes. Often less.

Perhaps the nitpickers are also not there any more...?

Most of them have gone to that great financial report questioning in
the sky. :)

Ah, that could make things easier here... ;)

Those meetings also often ran for two or three hours now its an
hour to an hour and 15 minutes.

That's also progress... ;)

Unless it is something of great importance most meetings (of any
kind) shouldn't be more than 90 minutes.

That's generally true...

But next month ends my three year term. <vbg>

And will you be able to stay off the board for another 25 years after that...? <G>

Maybe another three years.

Well, that's better than nothing... ;)

I would like to have younger people on the "board" than just a bunch
of gray hairs sitting around. Give them some responsibility and a
sense of belonging. Too often its the same ones who rotate on and off,
on and off, on and off.

If you have the younger ones available, it is indeed a good idea to
encourage them to be a part of the leadership... someone will have to
take over when the greybeards are gone....

ttyl neb

... Just because it doesn't do what you planned doesn't mean it's useless.

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Daryl wrote --

They just cash in on the stupidity of the constituents who keep voting
them in.

Getting a bit close to modern times there...

... If you have a rotary phone, please press 1 now.

I've seen vids of modern youth who have no idea how to operate one of
those.
I have a 1947 black Bakelite phone (I no longer have a landline to wire
it to, but used to use it) that I refer to as a "conversation piece". :)
Joe
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Joe,

They just cash in on the stupidity of the constituents who keep voting them in.

Getting a bit close to modern times there...

It makes no sense. They say "throw the bums out", but they keep voting
them in.

It's like the late Red Skelton noted..."I know a guy with a beard down
to his belly, hair down to his butt, yet he shaves under his arms".

"Now, you figure it out". :P

Daryl

... Deliver a pizza? Whoever heard of a liver pizza?
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