HI,

I am wondering if it is possible for a point to send netmail to another point that is of slightly more personal content than what you would likely type into in an Echo?

I am a ham operator who is used to talking to individuals.

73,
Alan

--- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
* Origin: WinPoint (1:229/426.36)

Re: sending a message to someone
By: Alan Beck to all on Sun Jan 31 2021 09:18 pm

I am wondering if it is possible for a point to send netmail to another point that is of slightly more personal content than what you would likely type into in an Echo?

I am a ham operator who is used to talking to individuals.

Sure, that is the main point of fidonet and I suppose othernets too. You should be able to route that mail through your BOSS node, or you might be able to deliver it directly to the node if your mailer knows about that node.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

On 31 Jan 2021, Alan Ianson said the following...

I am wondering if it is possible for a point to send netmail to anoth point that is of slightly more personal content than what you would l type into in an Echo?

I am a ham operator who is used to talking to individuals.

Sure, that is the main point of fidonet and I suppose othernets too. You should be able to route that mail through your BOSS node, or you might
be able to deliver it directly to the node if your mailer knows about
that node.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

And you can always use pgp in netmail if you wanted to make sure nobody
can snoop on your message along the way.


Jay
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEcuwocisAPZIfHiqhO7S1uws2sj4FAmAXaOAACgkQO7S1uws2 sj6xKA/+J0sbZTzcK7IgzvFx2mnfvUknFEU2Q3Stdu4Iqab+8B9kJsJO6udTHYzF WLZIRR0hZ/w72drB8RR1pwU4qtnW+ptxjw2sjtNXzlJ+1+WUVzjRe2w5r3/BO0b4 ApTvA53OLHlgM7TwNSrc8cHbShmy4SkGrwYbhoI1IMAAiedIrEDj7ash0SmN+XWK 2V6kbFv38nFEQEn3+wbkAC02vz/4HDZr/xpQnwn6T/MkjhEEsLu1kO+OKtlLsexe zKHGUfpUYDkPyy+RbVxjnVkpiVKYakIYw5wisVNRygLSzKqejJl8Dbt48okjXGJh m1kHMkEZ0SACYcP3jaS478PEbUEqrMlAboyc//7jjGYUADMhx54C4yMbcnRorhxw FVvuS1zCo0ywjeXc56wdbdAf3bT1W22olUPapEVD1zw+yJpLpBzq4eUIqVr7wuxz 84vY2WcwxkYZYXkutrjfx4GC+hCwNnQXTELjPom2MMunmEJ6USwbNqXT99BeGYQX 5c+6HzvPSwLhKNqqYCFcOR3p1WwKRIZ+DVNSJbjrCc9fJoB1y5U6qpFrUzXfilkA LO9hgmWcezm4/808jlK0k1fKOdBBnLatOGg/B6qOYcGTEqQ0STtBfC9LlAs0a3Dj 3O1gmjlSurB0FiCIjw+T6CZkOFnWlU7wpw1FJ76SOj27YHOTYQY=
=ns6t
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/30 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (1:229/664)

I heard of PGP but never used it.

I guess I just enter an email to someone and do so in Netmail.

I will give someone a shout, see what happens.

Alan

On 31 Jan 2021, Alan Ianson said the following...

I am wondering if it is possible for a point to send netmail to

anoth AB> point that is of slightly more personal content than what you
would l AB> type into in an Echo?

I am a ham operator who is used to talking to individuals.

Sure, that is the main point of fidonet and I suppose othernets too. You
should be able to route that mail through your BOSS node, or you might
be able to deliver it directly to the node if your mailer knows about
that node.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512

And you can always use pgp in netmail if you wanted to make sure nobody can snoop on your message along the way.

Jay -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEcuwocisAPZIfHiqhO7S1uws2sj4FAmAXaOAACgkQO7S1uws2 sj6xKA/+J0sbZTzcK7IgzvFx2mnfvUknFEU2Q3Stdu4Iqab+8B9kJsJO6udTHYzF WLZIRR0hZ/w72drB8RR1pwU4qtnW+ptxjw2sjtNXzlJ+1+WUVzjRe2w5r3/BO0b4 ApTvA53OLHlgM7TwNSrc8cHbShmy4SkGrwYbhoI1IMAAiedIrEDj7ash0SmN+XWK 2V6kbFv38nFEQEn3+wbkAC02vz/4HDZr/xpQnwn6T/MkjhEEsLu1kO+OKtlLsexe zKHGUfpUYDkPyy+RbVxjnVkpiVKYakIYw5wisVNRygLSzKqejJl8Dbt48okjXGJh m1kHMkEZ0SACYcP3jaS478PEbUEqrMlAboyc//7jjGYUADMhx54C4yMbcnRorhxw FVvuS1zCo0ywjeXc56wdbdAf3bT1W22olUPapEVD1zw+yJpLpBzq4eUIqVr7wuxz 84vY2WcwxkYZYXkutrjfx4GC+hCwNnQXTELjPom2MMunmEJ6USwbNqXT99BeGYQX 5c+6HzvPSwLhKNqqYCFcOR3p1WwKRIZ+DVNSJbjrCc9fJoB1y5U6qpFrUzXfilkA LO9hgmWcezm4/808jlK0k1fKOdBBnLatOGg/B6qOYcGTEqQ0STtBfC9LlAs0a3Dj 3O1gmjlSurB0FiCIjw+T6CZkOFnWlU7wpw1FJ76SOj27YHOTYQY= =ns6t -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-+- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/30 (Raspberry Pi/32)
@ ORIGINAL: Northern Realms (1:229/664)

--- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
* Origin: WinPoint (1:229/426.36)

Hello Jay!

** On Sunday 31.01.21 - 21:37, Jay Harris wrote to Alan Beck:

And you can always use pgp in netmail if you wanted to make
sure nobody can snoop on your message along the way.

No guarantee that it would get delivered. Not many systems fly
the ENC flag.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.48
* Origin: :) :D :O :( :[ ;) 8) B) :> |I :P =) :S :B :] :\ (2:221/1.58)

On 01 Feb 2021, August Abolins said the following...

And you can always use pgp in netmail if you wanted to make
sure nobody can snoop on your message along the way.

No guarantee that it would get delivered. Not many systems fly
the ENC flag.

ENC This node accepts inbound encrypted mail and will route it
like other mail

I'm having trouble understanding what there would be to support. For PGP you're just pasting a blob of ascii text into a netmail. I don't think it would be treated any differently than a normal netmail, unless it's maybe a size limitation. In that case, Mystic anyway, will split the message up into multiple parts, 1/3, 2/3 & 3/3.

Was the ENC flag intended for some other purpose?


Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/30 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (1:229/664)

Hi Jay,

On 2021-02-01 12:07:09, you wrote to August Abolins:

No guarantee that it would get delivered. Not many systems fly
the ENC flag.

ENC This node accepts inbound encrypted mail and will route it
like other mail

I'm having trouble understanding what there would be to support. For PGP you're just pasting a blob of ascii text into a netmail. I don't think it would be treated any differently than a normal netmail, unless it's maybe a
size limitation. In that case, Mystic anyway, will split the message up into multiple parts, 1/3, 2/3 & 3/3.

Was the ENC flag intended for some other purpose?

The ENC flag isn't really a technical flag. It's more a statement the node will forward encrypted mail.

In the distant past when this first became an issue, people were afraid they would be held responsible for the content of the netmail they forwarded. If it was encrypted it could be anything, without them being able to checkup on it. So they actively filtered out/bounced any routed netmails their system would detect containing encrypted content.

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On 01 Feb 2021, Wilfred van Velzen said the following...

Was the ENC flag intended for some other purpose?

The ENC flag isn't really a technical flag. It's more a statement the
node will forward encrypted mail.

In the distant past when this first became an issue, people were afraid they would be held responsible for the content of the netmail they forwarded.

Interesting. So it was more of a liability thing.

I'm not sure about Europe, but the US has had a "Safe Harbour" law in place for quite some time & thanks to the USMCA (the new "NAFTA") both Canada & Mexico have those same protections (since July 2020).

Do we know of anyone still actively bouncing/droping encrypted netmail today?


Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/30 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (1:229/664)

Hi Jay,

On 2021-02-01 15:34:24, you wrote to me:

Was the ENC flag intended for some other purpose?

The ENC flag isn't really a technical flag. It's more a statement the
node will forward encrypted mail.

In the distant past when this first became an issue, people were
afraid they would be held responsible for the content of the netmail
they forwarded.

Interesting. So it was more of a liability thing.

Yes, sort of. But this was decades ago, when pgp was first introduced. So nobody really knew what laws applied, and the differences between countries. So some people choose the safe option.

I'm not sure about Europe, but the US has had a "Safe Harbour" law in place for quite some time & thanks to the USMCA (the new "NAFTA") both Canada & Mexico have those same protections (since July 2020).

I don't know the exact details but in general common carrier (telecom) companies can't be prosecuted for the data they transport. But I don't know it this applies to fidonet nodes.

Anyway I don't know of any legal problems in the history of fidonet for such things.

Do we know of anyone still actively bouncing/droping encrypted netmail today?

I don't. Maybe ask in an area like for instance FN_SYSOP, where you have a bigger audiance for such matters.

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Re: sending a message to someone
By: August Abolins to Jay Harris on Mon Feb 01 2021 09:57 am

No guarantee that it would get delivered. Not many systems fly
the ENC flag.

I don't fly that flag here but it makes no difference, nothing is filtered here.

If I can't deliver it to it's destination I do my best to get it moving in the right direction.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Never argue with a woman when she's tired, or rested.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

Hello Jay!

** On Monday 01.02.21 - 12:07, Jay Harris wrote to August Abolins:

ENC This node accepts inbound encrypted mail and will route it
like other mail

Right, so you'd probably have good results if the routed mails
when to other ENC systems.

I'm having trouble understanding what there would be to
support. For PGP you're just pasting a blob of ascii text
into a netmail.

I agree.. it's technically just a harmless blob that is
meaningless to the systems in between.

Was the ENC flag intended for some other purpose?

I see that a few other people stepped in with some history about
it.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.48
* Origin: :) :D :O :( :[ ;) 8) B) :> |I :P =) :S :B :] :\ (2:221/1.58)

Hello Jay!

** On Sunday 31.01.21 - 21:37, Jay Harris wrote to Alan Beck:

And you can always use pgp in netmail if you wanted to make
sure nobody can snoop on your message along the way.

I've experimented with pgp-encrypted mail in FTN, but email
seems to be a more reliable way to make a delivery.

I'm not sure about all the steps you need to take in Mystic, but
producing an encrpyted/signed message is so much easier in
Thunderbird + the Enigma plugin.


--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.48
* Origin: :) :D :O :( :[ ;) 8) B) :> |I :P =) :S :B :] :\ (2:221/1.58)

On 01 Feb 2021, August Abolins said the following...

I've experimented with pgp-encrypted mail in FTN, but email
seems to be a more reliable way to make a delivery.

I'm not sure about all the steps you need to take in Mystic, but producing an encrpyted/signed message is so much easier in
Thunderbird + the Enigma plugin.

Agreed, Thunderbird makes it fairly easy. In Mystic there's a lot of copying & pasting involved to get the encrypted blob to/from gpg <-> Mystic.


Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/30 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (1:229/664)