Well someone reckons this is the start of the great disintegration of
the global economy. As fossil fuel gets so tight that no one can afford transport etc.
"The issue of how important crude oil is to the world economy has been
left out of most textbooks for years. Instead, we were taught creative
myths covering several topics:
Huge amounts of fossil fuels will be available in the future
Climate change is our worst problem
Wind and solar will save us
A fast transition to an all-electric economy is possible
Electric cars are the future
The economy will grow forever
Now we are running into a serious shortfall of crude oil. We can expect
a new set of problems, including far more conflict. Wars are likely.
Debt defaults are likely. Political parties will take increasingly
divergent positions on how to work around current problems. News media
will increasingly tell the narrative that their owners and advertisers
want told, with little regard for the real situation."
https://ourfiniteworld.com/
Never mind learning python, have to learn how to dig potatoes.
Happy weekend all!
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well someone reckons this is the start of the great disintegration of
the global economy. As fossil fuel gets so tight that no one can afford
transport etc.
I am not sure if this is directly related to the crude oil topic. I bet more important is the shortage of electronic components and high shipment
prices.
"The issue of how important crude oil is to the world economy has been
left out of most textbooks for years. Instead, we were taught creative
myths covering several topics:
Huge amounts of fossil fuels will be available in the future
Climate change is our worst problem
Wind and solar will save us
A fast transition to an all-electric economy is possible
Electric cars are the future
The economy will grow forever
How was this said: We know that they lie to us. They know that we know. We know that they know that we know. And they know this and despite of it they still lie to us.
Now we are running into a serious shortfall of crude oil. We can expect
a new set of problems, including far more conflict. Wars are likely.
Debt defaults are likely. Political parties will take increasingly
divergent positions on how to work around current problems. News media
will increasingly tell the narrative that their owners and advertisers
want told, with little regard for the real situation."
https://ourfiniteworld.com/
Never mind learning python, have to learn how to dig potatoes.
It is not so simple ... you need also land. It is worst case - really. If
you have to grow potatoes the revolution would be already over.
It all reminds me of Erich Maria Remarque somehow ... but people forgot reading good books.
Happy weekend all!
Same to you
Never mind learning python, have to learn how to dig potatoes.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well someone reckons this is the start of the great disintegration of
the global economy. As fossil fuel gets so tight that no one can afford
transport etc.
I am not sure if this is directly related to the crude oil topic. I bet more important is the shortage of electronic components and high shipment
prices.
Now we are running into a serious shortfall of crude oil. We can expect
a new set of problems, including far more conflict. Wars are likely.
Debt defaults are likely. Political parties will take increasingly
divergent positions on how to work around current problems. News media
will increasingly tell the narrative that their owners and advertisers
want told, with little regard for the real situation."
https://ourfiniteworld.com/
Never mind learning python, have to learn how to dig potatoes.
It is not so simple ... you need also land. It is worst case - really. If
you have to grow potatoes the revolution would be already over.
At heart the problem is that the Pi's are too cheap. If they priced
them according to traditional supply/demand economic rules then
they would have just increased the prices to compensate. In fact
Pi retailers do that anyway by bundling in over-priced extras, but
because the cheap deal on the board alone is theoretically still
there, us buyers are tempted to seek that out.
Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
At heart the problem is that the Pi's are too cheap. If they priced[snip]
them according to traditional supply/demand economic rules then
they would have just increased the prices to compensate. In fact
Pi retailers do that anyway by bundling in over-priced extras, but
because the cheap deal on the board alone is theoretically still
there, us buyers are tempted to seek that out.
Doubling the price of a Pi would slacken off demand for Pis a bit, but ultimately it would not get them made any faster. It will take slacking off the world demand for semiconductors before things get better.
It's not really related to that. It's because of supply chain problems
with component parts. The parts themselves are often not that notable,
but without basic things like voltage regulators you can't ship product.
It is also nontrivial to redesign for a different part that you *do* have
in stock.
Deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well someone reckons this is the start of the great disintegration of
the global economy. As fossil fuel gets so tight that no one can afford
transport etc.
I am not sure if this is directly related to the crude oil topic. I bet more >> important is the shortage of electronic components and high shipment
prices.
At heart the problem is that the Pi's are too cheap. If they priced
them according to traditional supply/demand economic rules then
they would have just increased the prices to compensate.
In fact
Pi retailers do that anyway by bundling in over-priced extras, but
because the cheap deal on the board alone is theoretically still
there, us buyers are tempted to seek that out.
If you went into a store wanting to buy a new TV, you wouldn't be
hunting around to try and find the one being sold without a remote
and cables at 1/3rd the price, would you? Nevertheless they've
probably got the same sort of high profit margins on those TVs that
Pi sellers have on their bundles, you just haven't got a company
like the Pi Foundation (or whatever their business arm is now
called) telling you what you _should_ be paying.
So when you can't buy TVs, _that's_ the end of the civilisation. :)
Not that I object to fixed pricing on board-only Pi sales, I think
it's great. You just need to be realistic about it.
Now we are running into a serious shortfall of crude oil. We can expect
a new set of problems, including far more conflict. Wars are likely.
Debt defaults are likely. Political parties will take increasingly
divergent positions on how to work around current problems. News media
will increasingly tell the narrative that their owners and advertisers
want told, with little regard for the real situation."
https://ourfiniteworld.com/
Never mind learning python, have to learn how to dig potatoes.
It is not so simple ... you need also land. It is worst case - really. If
you have to grow potatoes the revolution would be already over.
If someone really believes in all this, then they should invest in
oil companies and buy the land with their profits.
Doubling the price of a Pi would slacken off demand for Pis a bit, but ultimately it would not get them made any faster. It will take slacking off the world demand for semiconductors before things get better.
Nothing to do with the price of oil, by the way.
On 14/05/2022 05:19, Theo wrote:
Doubling the price of a Pi would slacken off demand for Pis a bit, but ultimately it would not get them made any faster. It will take slacking off the world demand for semiconductors before things get better.
Nothing to do with the price of oil, by the way.
I think you are over hasty there: all pricing of *costs* (not talking retails) boils down to how many man hours are in there, what they cost,
and the profit being made down the supply chain. If people need to make
more because oil prices are up, and they need oil, then up goes the
price of EVERYTHING.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:I have ssen an article that claims that it is less supply sidee shock
On 14/05/2022 05:19, Theo wrote:
Doubling the price of a Pi would slacken off demand for Pis a bit, butI think you are over hasty there: all pricing of *costs* (not talking
ultimately it would not get them made any faster. It will take slacking >>> off the world demand for semiconductors before things get better.
Nothing to do with the price of oil, by the way.
retails) boils down to how many man hours are in there, what they cost,
and the profit being made down the supply chain. If people need to make
more because oil prices are up, and they need oil, then up goes the
price of EVERYTHING.
Yes, but this is not an inflationary shock, it's a supply-side shock.
If the price of your input commodities like oil goes up, you have to raise the prices of your products. But you can still make the same products you did before, as long as they sell at the higher prices.
If you can't get the parts for your products, it doesn't matter how much money you have or what you price your products at, you can't make any.
(unless you're a trillionaire and can build your own entire supply chain
from scratch, but even that takes years)
Theo
It's not really related to that. It's because of supply chain problems with component parts. The parts themselves are often not that notable, but without basic things like voltage regulators you can't ship product. It is also nontrivial to redesign for a different part that you *do* have in stock.
This same problem affects products all across the marketplace. The problem is that that those $0.10 voltage regulators are also used in things like
car brake controllers, and you can't ship a car if the brakes don't work.
I have ssen an article that claims that it is less supply sidee shock
than preferential customer treatment. Pis are used commercially and that
is who is being supplied on contract - us hobbyists get what's left
over, essentially
I have ssen an article that claims that it is less supply sidee shock
than preferential customer treatment. Pis are used commercially and that
is who is being supplied on contract - us hobbyists get what's left
over, essentially
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I have ssen an article that claims that it is less supply sidee shock
than preferential customer treatment. Pis are used commercially and that
is who is being supplied on contract - us hobbyists get what's left
over, essentially
The supply side shock is industry-wide. It affects *everyone*, not just
Pis, which are an insignificant product line in the grand scheme of things.
On 15 May 2022 at 12:12:08 BST, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I have ssen an article that claims that it is less supply sidee shock
than preferential customer treatment. Pis are used commercially and
that is who is being supplied on contract - us hobbyists get what's
left over, essentially
The supply side shock is industry-wide. It affects *everyone*, not just Pis, which are an insignificant product line in the grand scheme of
things.
Why is there this chip/fab shortage? For sunflower oil it's rather more
clear ...
PS. I know the Pi quantities are very high, and there's a lag
between component stock and boards on shelves, but the voltage
regulator used in the Pi Zero W doesn't seem all that scarce at
the moment
http://www.findchips.com/search/PAM2306AYPKE
As I understand it the more high-tech chips requiring more
advanced manufacturing processes are suffering the most because
there aren't so many facilities that can make them. Hence
things like microcontrollers have been out of stock, and
presumably also the SoCs used in stuff like the Pis.
On 15 May 2022 11:43:57 GMT
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
Why is there this chip/fab shortage? For sunflower oil it's rather more clear ...
There's a shortage of shipping containers - fall out from the pandemic - which has jacked up the price of them a *lot*. Which means
there's a shortage of *everything* that has to be shipped *and* everything costs more to ship which gets passed on or swallowed hitting profits hard.
There also aren't enough high end 7nm fabs (they're rather
expensive to build) to meet the demand, but that's another problem that
only affects high end chips like big memory chips and the top end
processors.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
On 15 May 2022 11:43:57 GMT
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
Why is there this chip/fab shortage? For sunflower oil it's rather more
clear ...
While there was tightness at top-end fabs due to demand for laptops etc, a lot of the parts we've been having difficulty getting are more basic: microcontrollers, analogue parts, ethernet chips, etc. People like TI and Microchip were very badly affected. I can't say I noticed a tightness in memory chips, which are commoditised and on different processes from others, but maybe there was.
Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
PS. I know the Pi quantities are very high, and there's a lag
between component stock and boards on shelves, but the voltage
regulator used in the Pi Zero W doesn't seem all that scarce at
the moment
http://www.findchips.com/search/PAM2306AYPKE
Manufacturers run pick and place lines with reels of parts, in that case a reel is 3000. Most of the vendors there don't have enough parts for a full reel - you can't run much of a production line with a part reel.
Digikey has 125k. But the Pi sells 500k a month, ie 125k a week.
So that's enough for a week's worth of units. Not to be sniffed at, but not a long term solution.
As I understand it the more high-tech chips requiring more
advanced manufacturing processes are suffering the most because
there aren't so many facilities that can make them. Hence
things like microcontrollers have been out of stock, and
presumably also the SoCs used in stuff like the Pis.
Pi4 is 28nm, the other Pis are 40nm. That's pretty mature these days (a decade or more old). I'm not sure what regular microcontroller parts are fabbed on - maybe 65 or 90nm? But anyway, the Pi is not on the same lines
as the latest 7nm chips for phones or laptops.
For sure. It would be interesting to know more about chip
manufacturer capacities, but much of the info is likely to be
considered trade secrets. 40nm may be mature, but does it still
cost much more to build a 40nm fab than a 90nm fab?
Well someone reckons this is the start of the great disintegration
of the global economy. As fossil fuel gets so tight that no one can
afford transport etc.
Am 13.05.2022 um 17:43 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
Well someone reckons this is the start of the great disintegration
of the global economy. As fossil fuel gets so tight that no one can
afford transport etc.
I own a Pi 400, a Pi Zero and a Pico.
Should I put it in the bay and retire? ;-)
FW
On 16/05/2022 10:15, F. W. wrote:
Maybe. Its probably $1000 if you do.
I own a Pi 400, a Pi Zero and a Pico.
Should I put it in the bay and retire? ;-)
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/05/2022 10:15, F. W. wrote:
Maybe. Its probably $1000 if you do.
I own a Pi 400, a Pi Zero and a Pico.
Should I put it in the bay and retire? ;-)
You'd triple your money just buying kits from official stockists
here in Aus and selling them there if that were the case.
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
It's not really related to that. It's because of supply chain problems with >> component parts. The parts themselves are often not that notable, but
without basic things like voltage regulators you can't ship product. It is >> also nontrivial to redesign for a different part that you *do* have in stock.
This same problem affects products all across the marketplace. The problem >> is that that those $0.10 voltage regulators are also used in things like
car brake controllers, and you can't ship a car if the brakes don't work.
Here's an example of what issues you can run across when doing such a >substitution:
https://frame.work/blog/solving-for-silicon-shortages
ust imagine what will happen in case of nuclear war when a large EM (Electro Magnetic) impulse
is caused by nuke detonation in the upper atmosphere.
Not a singe computer or computerized gadget (cars smartphones, what not) will work anymore.
Your only chance of transport is the old diesel (if you can get one and fuel).
I think it is a big mistake to rely on chips everywhere given the tendency of humans to make wars for profit
or robbery.
Not even mentioning the electric grid getting hit by hackers or bombs.
No emergency services as those are electric too.
No lights no cooking no food.
On 17/05/2022 10:20, Jan Panteltje wrote:
ust imagine what will happen in case of nuclear war when a large EM (Electro Magnetic) impulse
is caused by nuke detonation in the upper atmosphere.
Not a singe computer or computerized gadget (cars smartphones, what not) will work anymore.
That is absolutely not a given.
Many circuits that are not on and in relatively shielded enclosures
would survive. As would all passive fibre optics and many chips simply
in storage.
Your only chance of transport is the old diesel (if you can get one and fuel).
I think it is a big mistake to rely on chips everywhere given the tendency of humans to make wars for profit
or robbery.
Not even mentioning the electric grid getting hit by hackers or bombs.
No emergency services as those are electric too.
No lights no cooking no food.
Well we could always go back to valves (tubes)
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
On 17/05/2022 10:20, Jan Panteltje wrote:
ust imagine what will happen in case of nuclear war when a large EM (Electro >> Magnetic) impulse
is caused by nuke detonation in the upper atmosphere.
Not a singe computer or computerized gadget (cars smartphones, what not) will
work anymore.
That is absolutely not a given.
Many circuits that are not on and in relatively shielded enclosures
would survive. As would all passive fibre optics and many chips simply
in storage.
Just imagine what will happen in case of nuclear war when a large EM
(Electro Magnetic) impulse is caused by nuke detonation in the upper atmosphere. Not a singe computer or computerized gadget (cars
smartphones, what not) will work anymore. Your only chance of transport
is the old diesel (if you can get one and fuel).
On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:20:14 GMT
Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
Just imagine what will happen in case of nuclear war when a large EM
(Electro Magnetic) impulse is caused by nuke detonation in the upper
atmosphere. Not a singe computer or computerized gadget (cars
smartphones, what not) will work anymore. Your only chance of transport
is the old diesel (if you can get one and fuel).
These are the *small* problems - oh and that old diesel, does it
have a hand crank to start it and are you built like Charles Atlas ?
The larger problems will be. Are you safe from fallout ? Do you have
clean land to grow food in ? Do you have uncontaminated seeds ? Do you have >enough to survive until they grow ? Is there a viable concentration of
people with all of this anywhere on the planet ? Are you in one of them ?
If there's a single no in all of that in the event of nuclear war
then follow these simple instructions:
Bend over, place your head between your knees and kiss your arse
goodbye.
On 17 May 2022 at 11:21:27 BST, "The Natural Philosopher" ><tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 17/05/2022 10:20, Jan Panteltje wrote:
ust imagine what will happen in case of nuclear war when a large EM (Electro
Magnetic) impulse
is caused by nuke detonation in the upper atmosphere.
Not a singe computer or computerized gadget (cars smartphones, what not) will
work anymore.
That is absolutely not a given.
Many circuits that are not on and in relatively shielded enclosures
would survive. As would all passive fibre optics and many chips simply
in storage.
Oh good, that's OK then.
:-)
I remember that interview with that Russian guy near Chernobyl who had a head from some deer on the wall;
the head was very radioactive. Reporter asked him: 'Are you not afraid of that radiation coming from that head?'
On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:20:14 GMT
Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
Just imagine what will happen in case of nuclear war when a large EM
(Electro Magnetic) impulse is caused by nuke detonation in the upper
atmosphere. Not a singe computer or computerized gadget (cars
smartphones, what not) will work anymore. Your only chance of transport
is the old diesel (if you can get one and fuel).
These are the *small* problems - oh and that old diesel, does it
have a hand crank to start it and are you built like Charles Atlas ?
The larger problems will be. Are you safe from fallout ?
clean land to grow food in ? Do you have uncontaminated seeds ? Do you have enough to survive until they grow ? Is there a viable concentration of
people with all of this anywhere on the planet ? Are you in one of them ?
If there's a single no in all of that in the event of nuclear war
then follow these simple instructions:
Bend over, place your head between your knees and kiss your arse goodbye.
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 May 2022 11:09:08 -0000 (UTC)) it happened RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote in <t5vvok$dni$1@dont-email.me>:
On 17 May 2022 at 11:21:27 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 17/05/2022 10:20, Jan Panteltje wrote:
ust imagine what will happen in case of nuclear war when a large EM (Electro
Magnetic) impulse
is caused by nuke detonation in the upper atmosphere.
Not a singe computer or computerized gadget (cars smartphones, what not) will
work anymore.
That is absolutely not a given.
Many circuits that are not on and in relatively shielded enclosures
would survive. As would all passive fibre optics and many chips simply
in storage.
Oh good, that's OK then.
:-)
There are no 'passive' fiber optics links.
there are send and receive semiconductor based units at each end,
and the same for any repeaters.
Japan never cleaned up Nagasaki or Hiroshima, and people, once the post explosion radiation cases had died relatively quickly, did not die of
cancer, much more than they would have anyway.
On 16/05/2022 23:29, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:No official stockist I found anywhere in the world had stock
On 16/05/2022 10:15, F. W. wrote:
Maybe. Its probably $1000 if you do.
I own a Pi 400, a Pi Zero and a Pico.
Should I put it in the bay and retire? ;-)
You'd triple your money just buying kits from official stockists
here in Aus and selling them there if that were the case.
If you have access to stock, buy it and resell it
In fact if you survive the heat flash and the detonation, you are very unlikely to die of fallout.
There is quite a narrow band between 'death from pother causes and
survival in which radiation poisoning occurs
On 17 May 2022 at 18:34:17 BST, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> >wrote:
I remember that interview with that Russian guy near Chernobyl who had a head from some deer on the wall;
the head was very radioactive. Reporter asked him: 'Are you not afraid of that radiation coming from that head?'
Typical ignorant journo. How does he know *what* radiation is coming from it? >Unless it is gamma, you can ignore it. Unless he eats the head, of course, in >which case take care.
Same with polonium-210. Gives off alpha particles which a sheet of paper will >stop. Quite safe inside a glass bottle, just don't eat it.
On Tue, 17 May 2022 20:00:55 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
In fact if you survive the heat flash and the detonation, you are very
unlikely to die of fallout.
There is quite a narrow band between 'death from pother causes and
survival in which radiation poisoning occurs
There's a big difference between having one or two nukes go off and having the full scale second strikes let go. That's the bend over scenario.
I agree if there's a limited nuclear exchange then most of us have nothing
to worry about.
On 18/05/2022 06:41, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2022 20:00:55 +0100The point about a first strike is that its supposed to take out the
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
In fact if you survive the heat flash and the detonation, you are very
unlikely to die of fallout.
There is quite a narrow band between 'death from pother causes and
survival in which radiation poisoning occurs
There's a big difference between having one or two nukes go off and >> having the full scale second strikes let go. That's the bend over scenario. >> I agree if there's a limited nuclear exchange then most of us have nothing >> to worry about.
second strike capability.
Let's say Putin launches 20 missiles. Insane. he's crossed the line and >invited massive retaliation for virtually no gain..
So there is no reason to go with first and second strikes. You launch
the lot. But even in that scenario, Putin knows that there will be
nuclear equipped submarines lurking, aircraft scrambled and in the air,
and a large proportion of land sites will be able to get missiles and >antimissiles off before they are wiped out.
But even so it isn't the end of the world. We have had tow 50 megatonne
plus volcanic eruptions in the twentieth century, that produced far
more dust fallout than even ground based nuclear strikes would, and a 50 >megaton atomic test. The test caused far less issues in terms of ash
and dust clouds.
My point being two fold, firstly that Natures ability to cause massive >explosions far exceeds humanities, and we are all still here. And
secondly that atomic explosions kill by vaporization and blast, not by >radiation and fallout, primarily.
Finally what are the defence implications for a nation like Russia if
its used all its nukes up, and is in total ruins? who will move in
instead? Greater China would take the East and the Germans would annex
the West.
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:29 +0100) it happened The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <t62h02$tog$1@dont-email.me>:
Finally what are the defence implications for a nation like Russia if
its used all its nukes up, and is in total ruins? who will move in
instead? Greater China would take the East and the Germans would annex
the West.
I was thinking west part of N America to China and east part to Russia.
So Washington would be Russian and LA Chinese.
With everybody and their cat having nukes these days,
changes are huge many will align and unite against US imperialism.
Is that not what history shows?
No empire yet has persisted.
Finally what are the defence implications for a nation like Russia if
its used all its nukes up, and is in total ruins? who will move in
instead? Greater China would take the East and the Germans would annex
the West.
The point about a first strike is that its supposed to take out the
second strike capability.
On Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:29 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
The point about a first strike is that its supposed to take out the
second strike capability.
The point about a second strike is that you can't take it out no
matter how large a first strike. A lot of effort went into making sure that
a nuclear war was unwinnable during the cold war, the remnants still exist.
The all out nuclear war scenario isn't one or two bombs or even ten
or twenty it is thousands - the whole point is that it is too insane for anyone to start it.
On 18 May 2022 at 11:53:18 BST, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> >wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:29 +0100) it happened The Natural
Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <t62h02$tog$1@dont-email.me>:
Finally what are the defence implications for a nation like Russia if
its used all its nukes up, and is in total ruins? who will move in
instead? Greater China would take the East and the Germans would annex
the West.
I was thinking west part of N America to China and east part to Russia.
So Washington would be Russian and LA Chinese.
With everybody and their cat having nukes these days,
changes are huge many will align and unite against US imperialism.
Is that not what history shows?
No empire yet has persisted.
As the EU will discover.
On 18/05/2022 16:03, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:29 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
The point about a first strike is that its supposed to take out the
second strike capability.
The point about a second strike is that you can't take it out no
matter how large a first strike. A lot of effort went into making sure
that a nuclear war was unwinnable during the cold war, the remnants
still exist.
The all out nuclear war scenario isn't one or two bombs or even
ten or twenty it is thousands - the whole point is that it is too
insane for anyone to start it.
Not *that* many thousands,
and there is plenty of doubt that Russia
especially has enough fissile material undecayed in old warheads to go
bang. Nuclear warheads have a sell by date. Although plutonium SHOULD
last the pace...
There is a lot of doubt as to how many warheads Russia ever had as well,
We are discovering that when it comes to their military capabilities,
Russia is simply full of shit.
The only real use of nuclear weapon is as a deterrent, and as neutron
bombs with high radiation to blast ratios. So you kill people but leave
the valuable infrastructure intact. The genocide bomb.
There is a lot of doubt as to how many warheads Russia ever had as well,
since te main point of having nukes is to deter anyone else using them
on you. That just takes a successful test or two and some cardboard
missiles in the red square parades.
We are discovering that when it comes to their military capabilities,
Russia is simply full of shit.
On a sunny day (18 May 2022 13:26:15 GMT) it happened TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote in <jekafnFroa6U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 18 May 2022 at 11:53:18 BST, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:29 +0100) it happened The Natural >>> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <t62h02$tog$1@dont-email.me>:
Finally what are the defence implications for a nation like Russia if
its used all its nukes up, and is in total ruins? who will move in
instead? Greater China would take the East and the Germans would annex >>>> the West.
I was thinking west part of N America to China and east part to Russia.
So Washington would be Russian and LA Chinese.
With everybody and their cat having nukes these days,
changes are huge many will align and unite against US imperialism.
Is that not what history shows?
No empire yet has persisted.
As the EU will discover.
EU is hardly an emipre, more a US slave area.
Once EU has its own army and dances to its own tune ..
Anyways you Brits must regret leaving it by now.
?
;-)
On a sunny day (18 May 2022 13:26:15 GMT) it happened TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote in <jekafnFroa6U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 18 May 2022 at 11:53:18 BST, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:29 +0100) it happened The Natural >>> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <t62h02$tog$1@dont-email.me>:
Finally what are the defence implications for a nation like Russia if
its used all its nukes up, and is in total ruins? who will move in
instead? Greater China would take the East and the Germans would annex >>>> the West.
I was thinking west part of N America to China and east part to Russia.
So Washington would be Russian and LA Chinese.
With everybody and their cat having nukes these days,
changes are huge many will align and unite against US imperialism.
Is that not what history shows?
No empire yet has persisted.
As the EU will discover.
EU is hardly an emipre, more a US slave area.
Once EU has its own army and dances to its own tune ..
Anyways you Brits must regret leaving it by now
On a sunny day (18 May 2022 13:26:15 GMT) it happened TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote in <jekafnFroa6U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 18 May 2022 at 11:53:18 BST, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:29 +0100) it happened The
Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in
<t62h02$tog$1@dont-email.me>:
Finally what are the defence implications for a nation like Russia if
its used all its nukes up, and is in total ruins? who will move in
instead? Greater China would take the East and the Germans would
annex the West.
I was thinking west part of N America to China and east part to
Russia. So Washington would be Russian and LA Chinese.
With everybody and their cat having nukes these days,
changes are huge many will align and unite against US imperialism.
Is that not what history shows?
No empire yet has persisted.
As the EU will discover.
EU is hardly an emipre, more a US slave area.
Once EU has its own army and dances to its own tune ..
Anyways you Brits must regret leaving it by now.
EU is hardly an emipre, more a US slave area.
Once EU has its own army and dances to its own tune ..
Anyways you Brits must regret leaving it by now.
On Wed, 18 May 2022 16:49:42 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (18 May 2022 13:26:15 GMT) it happened TimSSome do, mainly the professional classes ...
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote in <jekafnFroa6U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 18 May 2022 at 11:53:18 BST, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:29 +0100) it happened The
Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in
<t62h02$tog$1@dont-email.me>:
Finally what are the defence implications for a nation like Russia if >>>>> its used all its nukes up, and is in total ruins? who will move in
instead? Greater China would take the East and the Germans would
annex the West.
I was thinking west part of N America to China and east part to
Russia. So Washington would be Russian and LA Chinese.
With everybody and their cat having nukes these days,
changes are huge many will align and unite against US imperialism.
Is that not what history shows?
No empire yet has persisted.
As the EU will discover.
EU is hardly an emipre, more a US slave area.
Once EU has its own army and dances to its own tune ..
Anyways you Brits must regret leaving it by now.
On a sunny day (18 May 2022 13:26:15 GMT) it happened TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote in
As the EU will discover.
EU is hardly an emipre, more a US slave area.
Once EU has its own army and dances to its own tune ..
Anyways you Brits must regret leaving it by now.
The UK was stupid, but also the EU should have been more accommodating
of UK concerns, to keep them on board.
Why?
I was generally pro the EU concept until I saw it closer up and could
also see what a bureaucratic mess it is. And that happened around 20
years ago. Nothing has happened since to make me change my mind. The way
that van der leyen became president of the Commission with no
competition, no input from the populace, was a good example. Done more or less the way that the Chinese do it.
Then you have their generally uncooperative manner towards our leaving and behaviour since we left, too. Sulking like children deprived of their
toys.
On Wed, 18 May 2022 18:37:02 +0100
Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> wrote:
The UK was stupid, but also the EU should have been more accommodating
of UK concerns, to keep them on board.
Hmm as I recall it the UK had a large collection of special arrangements attached to their EU membership.
On 18 May 2022 17:51:21 GMT
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
Why?
I was generally pro the EU concept until I saw it closer up and could
also see what a bureaucratic mess it is. And that happened around 20
Have you seen the British civil service up close ? Most of what
people see as the EU and when they talk about "being ruled from Brussels by faceless Eurocrats" is the civil service - those things are bureaucratic messes by definition and have been since Hammurabi.
years ago. Nothing has happened since to make me change my mind. The way
that van der leyen became president of the Commission with no
competition, no input from the populace, was a good example. Done more or
less the way that the Chinese do it.
Why ? She's a civil servant not an elected representative. The
elected representatives could kick her out if they wished to, along with
the whole commission. So who elected the head of HMRC ? Who can kick them
out ?
The head of HMRC doesn't initiate legislation, that's the difference. All
EU legislation starts at the Commission. It's not the business of civil servants to initiate legislation, directly elected politicians should be doing that.
It continues to be my opinion that the EU, as the latest attempt to
"unify" Europe over the heads of the populace, will end in tears, just as previous attempts have.
Hello Jan!
Wednesday May 18 2022 16:49, you wrote to timstreater@greenbee.net:
On a sunny day (18 May 2022 13:26:15 GMT) it happened TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote in
As the EU will discover.
EU is hardly an emipre, more a US slave area.
Once EU has its own army and dances to its own tune ..
Anyways you Brits must regret leaving it by now.
What with 27 commanders all speaking (mostly) a different language all with >attitude.
Like a hole in the head !
On 18 May 2022 at 17:49:42 BST, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> >wrote:
On a sunny day (18 May 2022 13:26:15 GMT) it happened TimS
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote in <jekafnFroa6U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 18 May 2022 at 11:53:18 BST, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> >>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:29 +0100) it happened The Natural >>>> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <t62h02$tog$1@dont-email.me>: >>>
Finally what are the defence implications for a nation like Russia if >>>>> its used all its nukes up, and is in total ruins? who will move in
instead? Greater China would take the East and the Germans would annex >>>>> the West.
I was thinking west part of N America to China and east part to Russia. >>>> So Washington would be Russian and LA Chinese.
With everybody and their cat having nukes these days,
changes are huge many will align and unite against US imperialism.
Is that not what history shows?
No empire yet has persisted.
As the EU will discover.
EU is hardly an emipre, more a US slave area.
Once EU has its own army and dances to its own tune ..
Anyways you Brits must regret leaving it by now
Why?
I was generally pro the EU concept until I saw it closer up and could also see >what a bureaucratic mess it is. And that happened around 20 years ago. Nothing >has happened since to make me change my mind. The way that van der leyen >became president of the Commission with no competition, no input from the >populace, was a good example. Done more or less the way that the Chinese do >it.
Then you have their generally uncooperative manner towards our leaving and >behaviour since we left, too. Sulking like children deprived of their toys.
On 18/05/2022 17:49, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (18 May 2022 13:26:15 GMT) it happened TimS
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote in <jekafnFroa6U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 18 May 2022 at 11:53:18 BST, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> >>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:29 +0100) it happened The Natural >>>> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <t62h02$tog$1@dont-email.me>: >>>
Finally what are the defence implications for a nation like Russia if >>>>> its used all its nukes up, and is in total ruins? who will move in
instead? Greater China would take the East and the Germans would annex >>>>> the West.
I was thinking west part of N America to China and east part to Russia. >>>> So Washington would be Russian and LA Chinese.
With everybody and their cat having nukes these days,
changes are huge many will align and unite against US imperialism.
Is that not what history shows?
No empire yet has persisted.
As the EU will discover.
EU is hardly an emipre, more a US slave area.
Once EU has its own army and dances to its own tune ..
Anyways you Brits must regret leaving it by now.
?
;-)
It is Covid and the risks of globalisation that expose the stupidity of >Brexit, not Ukraine. We need to have supply/production located in a
stable area, under our control. That only really works for a very large >economic (and necessarily political) area.
The UK was stupid, but also the EU should have been more accommodating
of UK concerns, to keep them on board. The UK/EU should have been more >accommodating of Russian concerns to try and get them onboard
(eventually).
as I recall it the UK had a large collection of special
arrangements attached to their EU membership.
On a sunny day (18 May 2022 13:26:15 GMT) it happened TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote in <jekafnFroa6U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 18 May 2022 at 11:53:18 BST, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 May 2022 11:15:29 +0100) it happened The Natural >>> Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <t62h02$tog$1@dont-email.me>:
Finally what are the defence implications for a nation like Russia if
its used all its nukes up, and is in total ruins? who will move in
instead? Greater China would take the East and the Germans would annex >>>> the West.
I was thinking west part of N America to China and east part to Russia.
So Washington would be Russian and LA Chinese.
With everybody and their cat having nukes these days,
changes are huge many will align and unite against US imperialism.
Is that not what history shows?
No empire yet has persisted.
As the EU will discover.
EU is hardly an emipre, more a US slave area.
Once EU has its own army and dances to its own tune ..
Anyways you Brits must regret leaving it by now.
?
;-)
On 18/05/2022 20:18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2022 18:37:02 +0100
Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> wrote:
The UK was stupid, but also the EU should have been more accommodating
of UK concerns, to keep them on board.
Hmm as I recall it the UK had a large collection of special
arrangements attached to their EU membership.
A large collection? Do you mean the rebate? Perhaps, but to a certain
extent that was a sticking plaster for EU policy flaws. Many of the referendum Brexit voter's concerns, were common EU concerns. Border immigration control, for instance.
If the EU had sought sensible reform, it is possible that it could have
kept Britain and strengthened itself. After the referendum, I had hoped Macron might step up with a vision that would suit everyone. But he was
just another all mouth and no trousers reformer, like Blair.
The EU clearly needs stronger political integration. The Greek crisis
was a clear indication of that. The EU needs to be able to enforce
sensible member state national budgetary policy, and should give proper
aid to floundering regions.
And now, today, we have Hungry looking for a bribe, to help push through
the EU's (stupid) plans to divest from Russian oil. Similarly, (NATO not
EU), Turkey is doing the same with a threat to block Sweden and Finland
from joining NATO.
The EU needs to become a proper political entity in its own right.
Oh and quite a lot of the populace are generally happy about the
idea of unifying Europe, some even think of themselves as European first
and their nationality second.
AIUI one major problem with neutron bombs is that they kill
*slowly* which turns your target into a nest of very unhappy suicide troops (for a while) as well as giving them plenty of time to booby trap or destroy all that valuable infrastructure.
Yes that is true, we did say once EU parliament is a place were we send malfunctioning politicians
to get rid of those.
Then all the green nonsense, the huge import of cheap labor from for example Africa, so many problems.
But it is a huge market place, even US fears the Euro.
Was nice to be able to travel in the EU (including once UK) everywhere.
Now UK has problems with Ireland's border I did read, how that will unfold?
And a majority in Ireland wants to be free of the UK?
Have not followed all the details really.
Shelves empty in the shops?
Some do, mainly the professional classes, but many of those who voted for brexit are still saying 'Bring it on: we want to re-negotiate a PROPER brexit', the Scots are saying 'forget the United Kingdom: we want out'
while the DUP (Northern Ireland) are just saying NO to everything because
of the Northern Ireland Agreement which they hate.
Its quite likely that Boris will be slung out sooner rather then later,
but that will be because of his 'laws apply to little people, not to me' attitude and his inability to see what's wrong with the Northern Ireland agreement that he pushed through.
On Wed, 18 May 2022 16:49:42 GMT
Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
EU is hardly an emipre, more a US slave area.
I'd rate it better than that, most of the initiatives on curbing
the excesses of rampant capitalism seem to be coming from the EU for a
start.
What the EU isn't is a state or nation. Perhaps yet should be added
to the previous sentence.
Once EU has its own army and dances to its own tune ..
It will be a lot closer to being a state/nation/...
The interesting thing about the EU having an army (generalise to military) comes if that replaces the nations in the EU having armies
because that really does make war between the nations of the EU impossible which was the original overarching goal. It would be a big ask, but then so was the Euro.
Anyways you Brits must regret leaving it by now.
Couldn't say, I decamped to Ireland a long time ago and I'm not
going back.
On 19/05/2022 08:18, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Yes that is true, we did say once EU parliament is a place were we send
malfunctioning politicians
to get rid of those.
Then all the green nonsense, the huge import of cheap labor from for example >> Africa, so many problems.
But it is a huge market place, even US fears the Euro.
Was nice to be able to travel in the EU (including once UK) everywhere.
Now UK has problems with Ireland's border I did read, how that will unfold?
Er no, it is the EU that has problems with Ireland's border.
And a majority in Ireland wants to be free of the UK?
No, they do not.
Have not followed all the details really.
That says it all
Shelves empty in the shops?Only of EU produce. No one buys it any more if they can avoid it.
With the whole of Africa desperate to sell vegetables and fruit to the
UK, who needs Spain Italy and Greece, not to mention S American produce?
- all in the shops now. EU produce simply has too much red tape - its
over priced and its EU.
Its easier to buy tech from China than from the EU. China wants to
trade. Its not a closed shop.
On 19/05/2022 07:29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
Oh and quite a lot of the populace are generally happy about the
idea of unifying Europe, some even think of themselves as European first
and their nationality second.
Well when your country is smaller than a British county, it is not
surprising
The idea of unifying Europe is great. It's the reality of the EU that is
such a mess.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
as I recall it the UK had a large collection of special
arrangements attached to their EU membership.
Not *that* many ...
Euro opt-out ... plenty others obliged to join but <cough>waiting</c> for years
Schengen opt-out ... several including Ireland
EMU opt out ... maybe only Denmark?
The rebate ... chalk one up for Maggie
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 May 2022 19:10:54 +1200) it happened nospam.Vincent.Coen@f1.n250.z2.fidonet.org (Vincent Coen) wrote in <1652897529@f1.n250.z2.fidonet.org>:
Hello Jan!
Wednesday May 18 2022 16:49, you wrote to timstreater@greenbee.net:
On a sunny day (18 May 2022 13:26:15 GMT) it happened TimS
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote in
As the EU will discover.
EU is hardly an emipre, more a US slave area.
Once EU has its own army and dances to its own tune ..
Anyways you Brits must regret leaving it by now.
What with 27 commanders all speaking (mostly) a different language all with >> attitude.
Like a hole in the head !
Yes, languages, here in the Netherlands we learn Dutch, French and German all required in high school
Later I did some Spanish.
As I have satellite TV with a movable dish I can get so many countries, one of those is Russia TV1 on Hotbird 13 degrees East
I like to listen to different viewpoints and now with the war in Ukrain I sometimes watch that Russian channel.
My Russian is bad (understatement), but then a while back I picked up some words from that channel
and last week I was stunned listening to some guy and then realized I understood what he was talking about.
Language is a funny thing, maybe easier to learn than you think.
Here in kindergarten, I already got some French,
.. A common language for the whole EU? I dunno, grin: Think English is out now they left, OTOH then all have to learn it
so equal effort for everybody, why not.
And a majority in Ireland wants to be free of the UK?
No, they do not.
The EU approach looks like the best (only) path open towards the dissolution of nations which is something we really need to achieve., the world is too small and the toys are too dangerous for nations who all too often act like spoiled three year old children.
Was nice to be able to travel in the EU (including once UK) everywhere.
Now UK has problems with Ireland's border I did read, how that will unfold?
On 19/05/2022 09:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And a majority in Ireland wants to be free of the UK?
No, they do not.
Eire population ~5M - already free of the UK
N Ireland population ~2M - about half want independence.
So a majority for freedom from the UK
On 19 May 2022 at 07:29:41 BST, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
The EU approach looks like the best (only) path open towards the
dissolution of nations which is something we really need to achieve., the
world is too small and the toys are too dangerous for nations who all too
often act like spoiled three year old children.
Attempts to "dissolve" nations- sort of like the Russians are trying as we speak - is precisely what cause the pen to fail and the sword to come back.
On 19 May 2022 at 08:18:19 BST, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
Was nice to be able to travel in the EU (including once UK) everywhere.
Ah, you mean like it was before the EU? When in 1967/68 I took my car across the channel, showed my passport and green card, and immediately was able to cross France and then do the same to enter Switzerland, Italy, Greece, Germany, Austria, Spain, even communist Yugoslavia. So I don't understand your
comment.
Now UK has problems with Ireland's border I did read, how that will unfold?
It's the EU that has the problem, not us.
On 19 May 2022 at 08:42:28 BST, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
as I recall it the UK had a large collection of special
arrangements attached to their EU membership.
Not *that* many ...
Euro opt-out ... plenty others obliged to join but <cough>waiting</c> for years
Schengen opt-out ... several including Ireland
EMU opt out ... maybe only Denmark?
The rebate ... chalk one up for Maggie
And Greenland, Iceland, and Switzerland took the "we're not going to join" opt-out. They formally withdrew their applications to join. Small countries, yes, but one has to wonder why.
The EU has problems with the UK not sticking to its agreement about the Ireland's border. Or more accurately, borders - between the north and
south, the the UK and the the north.
And the notion that China is a free and unfettered market is laughable.
On Thu, 19 May 2022 08:32:35 -0000 (UTC), RJH wrote:
The EU has problems with the UK not sticking to its agreement about theScarcely surprising. Given that there needed to be a customs/travel/
Ireland's border. Or more accurately, borders - between the north and
south, the the UK and the the north.
politic barrier once the UK wasn't part of the EU, the problem being where
to put it. There are only three choices:
1) on the existing Irish/Northern Ireland border - tried in the past and
no longer tolerated not least because any implementation would be at
least a big a mess as the current Dutch/Belgian fractal border
2) somewhere in the middle of NI, say between Belfast and Derry or just
outside the Belfast docks - both obvious non-starters
3) in the Irish Sea - never accepted at any stage by the DUP
On 18/05/2022 18:29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
AIUI one major problem with neutron bombs is that they kill
*slowly* which turns your target into a nest of very unhappy suicide troops >> (for a while) as well as giving them plenty of time to booby trap or destroy >> all that valuable infrastructure.
No, they don't kill slowly - if you look at the time to live of people exposed to severe radiation, it's a very exponential decay with a cutoff
in weeks. And most of them are pretty sick already.
On 19/05/2022 10:28, TimS wrote:
On 19 May 2022 at 07:29:41 BST, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:The old myth that the EU, rather than nuclear weapons, is what stopped
The EU approach looks like the best (only) path open towards the
dissolution of nations which is something we really need to achieve., the >>> world is too small and the toys are too dangerous for nations who all too >>> often act like spoiled three year old children.
Attempts to "dissolve" nations- sort of like the Russians are trying as we >> speak - is precisely what cause the pen to fail and the sword to come back. >>
the next European war.
Oh look how successful its being. Germany and Hungary have to have
Russian gas and cant afford to upset Putin.
Faugh!
Its all a sham.
US rather kills its own people with fracking...
I'd expect if US does not get nuked into oblivion then the states will fall apart anyways and
what will be left is a bunch of black warlords eating each other and perhaps buffalo...
:-)
On 19/05/2022 10:47, Chris Elvidge wrote:
On 19/05/2022 09:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:That wasn't what he meant. In NI and Scotland the majority want to
And a majority in Ireland wants to be free of the UK?
No, they do not.
Eire population ~5M - already free of the UK
N Ireland population ~2M - about half want independence.
So a majority for freedom from the UK
remain in the UK, NI is not ROI, and there is no country called 'Ireland'
Its staggering how ill informed most people who subscribe to the EU, are.
But like Russia, disinformation is what the EU does best...
.. A common language for the whole EU? I dunno, grin: Think English is out now they left, OTOH then all have to learn it
so equal effort for everybody, why not.
On 19/05/2022 12:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/05/2022 10:47, Chris Elvidge wrote:
On 19/05/2022 09:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:That wasn't what he meant. In NI and Scotland the majority want to
And a majority in Ireland wants to be free of the UK?
No, they do not.
Eire population ~5M - already free of the UK
N Ireland population ~2M - about half want independence.
So a majority for freedom from the UK
remain in the UK, NI is not ROI, and there is no country called 'Ireland'
Its staggering how ill informed most people who subscribe to the EU, are.
But like Russia, disinformation is what the EU does best...
But there is an island called Ireland.
"Country" was not specified originally.
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 May 2022 12:26:04 +0100) it happened The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <t659gc$avq$2@dont-email.me>:RUSSIAN agent, Merkel
On 19/05/2022 10:28, TimS wrote:
On 19 May 2022 at 07:29:41 BST, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:The old myth that the EU, rather than nuclear weapons, is what stopped
The EU approach looks like the best (only) path open towards the >>>> dissolution of nations which is something we really need to achieve., the >>>> world is too small and the toys are too dangerous for nations who all too >>>> often act like spoiled three year old children.
Attempts to "dissolve" nations- sort of like the Russians are trying as we >>> speak - is precisely what cause the pen to fail and the sword to come back. >>>
the next European war.
Oh look how successful its being. Germany and Hungary have to have
Russian gas and cant afford to upset Putin.
Faugh!
Its all a sham.
Well Germany - ruled at that time by US agent Merkel
Merkel used the fear for nuclear in the population after F*uckupshima and screaming greens did the rest.
Its all US games, killing Northstream2 was already part of Trumps game, ByeThen just used warmongering to do the rest,
war games...
US rather kills its own people with fracking...
I'd expect if US does not get nuked into oblivion then the states will fall apart anyways and
what will be left is a bunch of black warlords eating each other and perhaps buffalo...
:-)
On 19/05/2022 14:48, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 May 2022 12:26:04 +0100) it happened The NaturalRUSSIAN agent, Merkel
Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <t659gc$avq$2@dont-email.me>:
On 19/05/2022 10:28, TimS wrote:
On 19 May 2022 at 07:29:41 BST, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:The old myth that the EU, rather than nuclear weapons, is what stopped
The EU approach looks like the best (only) path open towards the >>>>> dissolution of nations which is something we really need to achieve., the >>>>> world is too small and the toys are too dangerous for nations who all too >>>>> often act like spoiled three year old children.
Attempts to "dissolve" nations- sort of like the Russians are trying as we >>>> speak - is precisely what cause the pen to fail and the sword to come back.
the next European war.
Oh look how successful its being. Germany and Hungary have to have
Russian gas and cant afford to upset Putin.
Faugh!
Its all a sham.
Well Germany - ruled at that time by US agent Merkel
- killed their nuclear plants as US is afraid they make a bomb.
Merkel used the fear for nuclear in the population after F*uckupshima and screaming greens did the rest.
Its all US games, killing Northstream2 was already part of Trumps game, ByeThen just used warmongering to do the rest,
war games...
US rather kills its own people with fracking...
I'd expect if US does not get nuked into oblivion then the states will fall apart anyways and
what will be left is a bunch of black warlords eating each other and perhaps buffalo...
:-)
The head of HMRC doesn't initiate legislation, that's the difference. All EU legislation starts at the Commission. It's not the business of civil servants to initiate legislation, directly elected politicians should be doing that.
That's a matter of opinion, is it better to have the legislation drafted by professionals who consider practical matters first or
politicians who consider ideology first ? Either way it's the directly elected representatives who decide on it.
Oh and quite a lot of the populace are generally happy about the
idea of unifying Europe, some even think of themselves as European first
and their nationality second. There are also people who want the bad old days of "my country first" back - that's retrograde and most know it but it can be a seductive call.
And that has been a fucking disaster as well.
or 4) between RoI and mainland Europe.
Not that Brussels would ever have accepted that, but it seems less
intrusive than a border within a single nation.
.. A common language for the whole EU? I dunno, grin: Think English is
out now they left, OTOH then all have to learn it so equal effort for everybody, why not.
It's the EU that has the problem, not us.
Re: Re: No pi stock anywhere and delivery times out to end 2023!
By: Ahem A Rivet's Shot to TimS on Thu May 19 2022 07:29 am
Oh and quite a lot of the populace are generally happy about
the idea of unifying Europe, some even think of themselves as European first and their nationality second. There are also people who want the
bad old days of "my country first" back - that's retrograde and most
know it but it can be a seductive call.
I beg to differ. Nobody I know in real life considers themselves European
Please take this totally off topic politics to uk.poitics
Or would you like me to just cross-post it there?
On 19 May 2022 09:33:57 GMT
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
It's the EU that has the problem, not us.
WRONG! The UK has created a land border with the EU it is the UKs responsibility to solve the problems that causes and to do so within the terms of the Good Friday Agreement to which the UK is signatory.
It is the UK's problem that they have backed themselves into an impossible corner.
On 19/05/2022 18:17, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On 19 May 2022 09:33:57 GMT TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:The Land Border has always existed? I don't see where it states in the
It's the EU that has the problem, not us.
WRONG! The UK has created a land border with the EU it is the UKs
responsibility to solve the problems that causes and to do so within
the terms of the Good Friday Agreement to which the UK is signatory.
Good Friday Agreement that the UK is responsible for the South closing
the border?
It's been 25 years, anyway, high time the Irish learnt to get along with
each other.
It is the UK's problem that they have backed themselves into an
impossible corner.
On Thu, 19 May 2022 16:25:36 +0100
Folderol <general@musically.me.uk> wrote:
Please take this totally off topic politics to uk.poitics
Or would you like me to just cross-post it there?
Well, I asked nicely.
On 19/05/2022 18:17, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On 19 May 2022 09:33:57 GMT
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
It's the EU that has the problem, not us.
WRONG! The UK has created a land border with the EU it is the
UKs responsibility to solve the problems that causes and to do so
within the terms of the Good Friday Agreement to which the UK is
signatory.
The Land Border has always existed? I don't see where it states in the
Good Friday Agreement that the UK is responsible for the South closing
the border?
On Thu, 19 May 2022 20:01:24 +0100
Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
On 19/05/2022 18:17, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On 19 May 2022 09:33:57 GMT
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
It's the EU that has the problem, not us.
WRONG! The UK has created a land border with the EU it is the
UKs responsibility to solve the problems that causes and to do so
within the terms of the Good Friday Agreement to which the UK is
signatory.
The Land Border has always existed? I don't see where it states in the
Good Friday Agreement that the UK is responsible for the South closing
the border?
Quite the opposite, it is AIUI impossible to square creating a hard customs border on the island of Ireland with the GFA. The fact that it is also incredibly difficult is another problem that could be solved it just requires a *lot* of work and a *lot* of detail negotiation - it'd probably take a century to do the job.
The UK is responsible for creating a border between the UK and the
EU that must be closed under international law and for the self interest of BOTH sides.
Most of that border is ocean which is easy but some of it is on
the island of Ireland.
The UK has signed an agreement (the GFA) that says it won't be
between NI and the ROI.
The UK government has promised the DUP that it
won't be between the UK and NI - but they put it there anyway.
Until the UK left the EU the provisions of the CTA, the four
freedoms of the EU and the GFA meant that the border between ROI and NI was irrelevant.
The UK chose to leave the EU and the single market and so goods,
money, people and services no longer travel freely between the EU and the
UK. Which means border controls are required of BOTH sides by international law.
The UK has to find a place for them that satisfies all of their
obligations. They've painted themselves into a corner.
On Thu, 19 May 2022 14:17:33 +0100
Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
or 4) between RoI and mainland Europe.
In a word "HELL NO", that would be totally unacceptable. Ireland is
a member of the EU and fully entitled to the four freedoms and all the
other benefits of EU membership, the UK don't get to take that away from Ireland or have any say at all in Ireland's international relationships (other than with the UK).
On Thu, 19 May 2022 09:12:17 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
And that has been a fucking disaster as well.
Far from it, a resounding success would be more accurate, nobody
wants to go back to the bad old days of currency exchange.
I have encountered people thinking that way in Germany, Austria,
Ireland and Holland. It's not common but it happens.
On Thu, 19 May 2022 20:01:24 +0100, Pancho wrote:
On 19/05/2022 18:17, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:Since 1927.
On 19 May 2022 09:33:57 GMT TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:The Land Border has always existed? I don't see where it states in the
It's the EU that has the problem, not us.
WRONG! The UK has created a land border with the EU it is the UKs
responsibility to solve the problems that causes and to do so within
the terms of the Good Friday Agreement to which the UK is signatory.
Good Friday Agreement that the UK is responsible for the South closing
the border?
The problem there is twofold:
- neither side of the land border wants customs posts on it.
- as I said elsewhere said land border is at least as much of a
topological mess as the Dutch/Belgian one: I believe that, if strictly
drawn it would bisect houses, roads and farmyards
Thats pretty much solved now.
It's been 25 years, anyway, high time the Irish learnt to get along with
each other.
It is the UK's problem that they have backed themselves into an
impossible corner.
Spoddon. Boris and his hangers on are by and large so self-centered that
they were incapable of realising that theit BIG IDEA, a border in the
Irish Sea, might not be either workable or acceptable to the DUP, let
alone that it is, in fact, both.
Until the UK left the EU the provisions of the CTA, the four
freedoms of the EU and the GFA meant that the border between ROI and NI was irrelevant.
The UK chose to leave the EU and the single market and so goods,
money, people and services no longer travel freely between the EU and the
UK. Which means border controls are required of BOTH sides by international law. The UK has to find a place for them that satisfies all of their obligations. They've painted themselves into a corner.
Hopefully NI will opt for reunification, and then the EU canThey wont. The reason NI is part of te UK is that the NI unionist feared
subsidise/deal with them. They are a lovely bunch :o).
No, the point is simple. The GFA is null and void.
Since one of its
signatories has ceased to exist - the EU *province* of the united
kingdom, is now a *nation*.
The point about local currencies is that they allow nations with
different standards of living to adjust their currencies. If you enforce
the same currency you get Greece, (or Mississippi).
On 19/05/2022 18:26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2022 14:17:33 +0100Except that that is exactly the arrangement the EU wants to impose upon
Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
or 4) between RoI and mainland Europe.
In a word "HELL NO", that would be totally unacceptable. Ireland is >> a member of the EU and fully entitled to the four freedoms and all the
other benefits of EU membership, the UK don't get to take that away from
Ireland or have any say at all in Ireland's international relationships
(other than with the UK).
the UK
On Fri, 20 May 2022 12:03:36 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
No, the point is simple. The GFA is null and void.
Oh Yipee bring back the troubles, free bombs for all.
I notice that the US government seems to disagree with you, quite strongly.
Since one of its signatories has ceased to exist - the EU *province* of the united
kingdom, is now a *nation*.
The status of Northern Ireland has not changed in the slightest. It
is and always (well since the UK first took over Ireland) has been part of the United Kingdom. It has never been an EU province - there's no such
thing.
The border does not work because the EU doesn't want it to work. For
some reasons they want to punish the UK by acquiring NI. Lords knows why.
On 20 May 2022 at 12:44:06 BST, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2022 12:03:36 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
No, the point is simple. The GFA is null and void.
Oh Yipee bring back the troubles, free bombs for all.
I notice that the US government seems to disagree with you, quite
strongly.
That's because it doesn't know its arse from a hole in the ground.
Since one of its signatories has ceased to exist - the EU *province* of the united
kingdom, is now a *nation*.
The status of Northern Ireland has not changed in the slightest. It
is and always (well since the UK first took over Ireland) has been part of >> the United Kingdom. It has never been an EU province - there's no such
thing.
He wasn't referring to NI.
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