Am 15.09.21 schrieb Oli@21:3/102 in FSX_NET:

Hallo Oli,

As I've seen in the other messages, you managed to compile it on ARM.
Very nice!
I hope that you can help a little in making OpenXP future-proof :)

Not really. It was a nice point software at the time, but the UI is just a bit too weird from my today's perspective.

I guess that could be said about almost every other FTN mail reader software...
At least it's way better than every BBS message reader that I've seen,
eg. in Mystic or Synchronet.

AFAIK most on-line BBS message readers only utilize a "last read
pointer", but OpenXP also stores a "read/unread" flag for every
message.
This is a must-have feature for a good message reader!
And I absolutely love the thread-view - as threads can span several
echos and can even continue in NetMails, OpenXP takes this into
account and displays echo changes and also NetMails (in and out) that
are part of a thread.
I've never seen anything as good as that again for message networks.

So, while the UI isn't as standard conforming as it could be, the
basic features are fantastic.
And some Pascal specialists could have a look at the basic UI
functions and make it conform to todays standards a little more.

Regards,
Anna

--- OpenXP 5.0.50
* Origin: Imzadi Box Point (21:3/127.1)

Hello Oli!

** On Tuesday 21.09.21 - 16:16, Oli wrote to Ogg:

The Z-Netz/ZConnect stuff is baggage from its origins.

AFAIK OpenXP's message base is still based on the ZConnect format.

In the now almost 3 yrs of using OpenXP, I haven't encountered
any messagebase issues. Do you percieve a problem with the
ZConnect format?




--- OpenXP 5.0.50
* Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)

Ogg wrote (2021-10-02):

The Z-Netz/ZConnect stuff is baggage from its origins.

AFAIK OpenXP's message base is still based on the ZConnect format.

In the now almost 3 yrs of using OpenXP, I haven't encountered
any messagebase issues. Do you percieve a problem with the
ZConnect format?

Not that I am aware of, more a fun fact. Z-Netz is dead for two decades and *XP is AFAIK the only actively maintained and used software that uses that format (and only internally as there is no remote box online anymore that understands ZConnect).

---
* Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)

acn wrote (2021-09-11):

I'm more interested in fixing the current software and standards.

That's a good intention.

I hope that eg. OpenXP would still be compatible with your ideas.

I don't expect that binkp/1.1 compatibility will go away anytime soon.

Because, as I see it, many of the original authors of this (really
great and superior to most other similar) program aren't part of the current development team. And as I understand it, the current team
mostly only fixes small bugs - but there won't be much progress eg.
for new platforms (arm...) and there won't be big rewrites eg. of the
BinkP part.

Is downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi, which didn't work out of the box. Is there anything that would make a port hard to achieve? It's FreePascal, little endian, 32 bit. There was some assembler, but I don't know how much of it is non-optional and needs to be ported to Pascal.

I guess something like this might be true for other parts of FTN software...

.... and most of the other other old software is abandoned and doesn't compile on modern systems or is closed source and there is no hope of any update. I guess unmaintained FTN software will become irrelevant at some point. It's amazing that CrossPoint / OpenXP has been ported to Linux and has still a development team. Anyone running Z-Netz or Maustausch software?

Does OpenXP binkp mailer work in server mode too or is it client only?

---
* Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)

Hello Oli!

** On Saturday 11.09.21 - 19:24, Oli wrote to acn:

Is downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi,
which didn't work out of the box. Is there anything that
would make a port hard to achieve? It's FreePascal, little
endian, 32 bit. There was some assembler, but I don't know
how much of it is non-optional and needs to be ported to
Pascal.

There is an extra library that is needed for the compilation to
work. I forget the details. I'll ask around.


--- OpenXP 5.0.50
* Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)

Hello Oli!

** On Saturday 11.09.21 - 19:24, Oli wrote to acn:

Is downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi, which didn't
work out of the box. [...]

Found it.

Perhaps the answer you seek is here:

https://openxp.uk/doc/distros.txt


--- OpenXP 5.0.50
* Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)

Ogg wrote (2021-09-11):

Hello Oli!

** On Saturday 11.09.21 - 19:24, Oli wrote to acn:

Is downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi,
which didn't work out of the box. Is there anything that
would make a port hard to achieve? It's FreePascal, little
endian, 32 bit. There was some assembler, but I don't know
how much of it is non-optional and needs to be ported to
Pascal.

There is an extra library that is needed for the compilation to
work. I forget the details. I'll ask around.

For compiling you need the Indy library.

The first compilation error is this one:

Compiling xp_uue.pas
xp_uue.pas(153,16) Error: Unknown identifier "EBX"
xp_uue.pas(154,16) Error: Unknown identifier "ESI"
xp_uue.pas(155,16) Error: Unknown identifier "EDI"
xp_uue.pas(156,11) Error: Unrecognized opcode lea
xp_uue.pas(156,15) Error: Assembler syntax error
xp_uue.pas(157,18) Error: Unknown identifier "EBX"
xp_uue.pas(157,20) Error: Assembler syntax error in operand
xp_uue.pas(157,37) Fatal: Syntax error, "register" expected but "identifier" found
Fatal: Compilation aborted
Error: /usr/bin/ppcarm returned an error exitcode

The funny part is that someone ported it from 32 to 64 bit (and maybe from 16 bit before). No idea why they didn't write that part in Pascal. I doubt that the speed difference is significant anymore.

---
* Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)

Am 11.09.21 schrieb Oli@21:3/102 in FSX_NET:

Hallo Oli,

Is downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi, which
didn't work out of the box. Is there anything that would make a
port hard to achieve? It's FreePascal, little endian, 32 bit. There
was some assembler, but I don't know how much of it is non-optional
and needs to be ported to Pascal.

As I've seen in the other messages, you managed to compile it on ARM.
Very nice!
I hope that you can help a little in making OpenXP future-proof :)

I guess something like this might be true for other parts of FTN
software...

.... and most of the other other old software is abandoned and
doesn't compile on modern systems or is closed source and there is
no hope of any update. I guess unmaintained FTN software will
become irrelevant at some point.

I guess that will be the case when the sysops which run these programs
on their old hardware or on VMs also ...well... 'become irrelevant'.
As long as these old systems are still up and running, eg. on DOS or
OS/2, there should be a compatibility layer or sth. ilke that to
support them.

It's amazing that CrossPoint / OpenXP has been ported to Linux and
has still a development team. Anyone running Z-Netz or Maustausch
software?

I don't know if these networks are still online...
I used to connect to a MAUS in Stuttgart, Germany, but that was back
in ~2005 - and I've used a MAUS point software on a Macintosh SE/30 :)

Does OpenXP binkp mailer work in server mode too or is it client only?

AFAIK it's client-only but together with an external mailer you can
use the 'sysop mode'.

Regards,
Anna

--- OpenXP 5.0.50
* Origin: Imzadi Box Point (21:3/127.1)

acn wrote (2021-09-14):

Am 11.09.21 schrieb Oli@21:3/102 in FSX_NET:

Hallo Oli,

I downloaded OpenXP and tried to compile it on my Raspi, which
didn't work out of the box. Is there anything that would make a
port hard to achieve? It's FreePascal, little endian, 32 bit. There
was some assembler, but I don't know how much of it is non-optional
and needs to be ported to Pascal.

As I've seen in the other messages, you managed to compile it on ARM.
Very nice!
I hope that you can help a little in making OpenXP future-proof :)

Not really. It was a nice point software at the time, but the UI is just a bit too weird from my today's perspective. I don't think I'm going to learn Pascal. I also don't speak assembly language. But if someone ports the asm code to Pascal I can try to compile it again.

The good thing: OpenXP has been ported to FreePascal (and Unix) and FP is quite portable, if you one can replace the few lines of asm.

It's amazing that CrossPoint / OpenXP has been ported to Linux and
has still a development team. Anyone running Z-Netz or Maustausch
software?

I don't know if these networks are still online...
I used to connect to a MAUS in Stuttgart, Germany, but that was back
in ~2005 - and I've used a MAUS point software on a Macintosh SE/30 :)

Nice. I started with Fido and never tried one of the other networks. In retrospect I should have.

---
* Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)

Hello Oli!

** On Wednesday 15.09.21 - 10:24, Oli wrote to acn:

As I've seen in the other messages, you managed to compile
it on ARM. Very nice! I hope that you can help a little in
making OpenXP future-proof :)

Not really. It was a nice point software at the time, but
the UI is just a bit too weird from my today's perspective.

What specifically is weird? OpenXP is a console program. It
looks not unlike the main message window of a BBS.

Screenshots: http://openxp.kolico.ca/sample-screenshots/

It pretty much has the BEST message editor bar none. ;)





--- OpenXP 5.0.50
* Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)

Ogg wrote (2021-09-15):

Not really. It was a nice point software at the time, but
the UI is just a bit too weird from my today's perspective.

What specifically is weird? OpenXP is a console program. It
looks not unlike the main message window of a BBS.

I think most BBS are horrible when it comes to usability ;-).

XP's menu are not well organized. Configuration options are all over the place. The behavior of the UI is different from what one usually expects. I used CrossPoint before and I find my way around, but I only would recommend it for someone who already knows how Fidonet works (and the meaning of Z-Netz / ZConnect, etc...)

---
* Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)

Hello Oli!

** On Saturday 18.09.21 - 18:33, Oli wrote to Ogg:

I think most BBS are horrible when it comes to usability ;-).

True. Most BBS interfaces could frustrate newbies, especially
when it comes to selecting areas to read, posting messages and
using the key-shortcuts for quoting/editing and saving
messages.

XP's menu are not well organized. Configuration options are
all over the place. The behavior of the UI is different
from what one usually expects. I used CrossPoint before and
I find my way around, but I only would recommend it for
someone who already knows how Fidonet works (and the
meaning of Z-Netz / ZConnect, etc...)

There is an internal F1-Help system that is pretty good!

The Z-Netz/ZConnect stuff is baggage from its origins. But all
that a newbie needs to know to get started is explained in the
UserGuide known as oxpguide.pdf, available here:

https://openxp.uk/doc/



--- OpenXP 5.0.50
* Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)

Ogg wrote (2021-09-18):

XP's menu are not well organized. Configuration options are
all over the place. The behavior of the UI is different
from what one usually expects. I used CrossPoint before and
I find my way around, but I only would recommend it for
someone who already knows how Fidonet works (and the
meaning of Z-Netz / ZConnect, etc...)

There is an internal F1-Help system that is pretty good!

Having an explanation for every menu and field is very helpful indeed.

The Z-Netz/ZConnect stuff is baggage from its origins.

AFAIK OpenXP's message base is still based on the ZConnect format.

---
* Origin: 1995| Invention of the Cookie. The End. (21:3/102)