Retro gaming is an expensive hobby. Much worse than other hobbies. I have to set a budget and figure out what I actually want.

I want to collect Game Cube, Nintendo DS/3DS and some PS1/PS2 games. PS3 is largely an abomination.

=== TitanMail/winnt v1.1.6

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (21:4/108)

Re: Retro Games
By: MATT MUNSON to All on Sat Oct 15 2022 04:44 pm

Retro gaming is an expensive hobby. Much worse than other hobbies. I have to set a budget an

I want to collect Game Cube, Nintendo DS/3DS and some PS1/PS2 games. PS3 is largely an abomi

=== TitanMail/winnt v1.1.6

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (21:4/108)

Retro Gaming is expensive if you intend to play original games on original hardware.

I mostly play games I bought as a kid during the MSDOS era. Those you can play easily via
emulators. Same thing with the Playstation ones - original playstation, at least.

I have not tried emulation with anything more modern, so I don't know how workable such a thing
would be in practice.

If you don't want to resort to piracy and you don't happen to have original games from the old
days which you want to play, they are often for sale on digital platforms as remakes or
re-editions.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Hello Arelor!

Replying to a msg dated 16 Oct 22 16:56, from you to me.

Super Mario RPG might be one of the games I would like to play, but I might need to buy a Super Nintendo Mini.

Matt


--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (21:4/108)

Re: Retro Games
By: MATT MUNSON to All on Sat Oct 15 2022 04:44 pm

Retro gaming is an expensive hobby. Much worse than other hobbies. I have to set a budget and figure out what I actually want.

I want to collect Game Cube, Nintendo DS/3DS and some PS1/PS2 games. PS3 is largely an abomination.

Yes, if you want to collect the actual physical systems and media, it could get expensive.. Sometimes I've contemplated collecting some retro consoles and games, but I'm not sure I want to put so much money into it. Last year I bought a Nintendo 64 and a Super Nintendo and some games, but I realized I tend to use emulation a lot more often than playing the physical systems, so I sold them.

I do like retro gaming, and I've tended to go the route of emulation. There are so many ways to emulate retro game consoles these days.. I've been using emulators on my PC for years, but now you can also mod some consoles (such as a Nintendo Wii or an X-Box) to run emulators and retro games; there are also retro handheld game systems you can use to run emulators on; I've also seen emulators for smartphones. There's also the more recent wave of the official 'Mini' emulator consoles - It started with Nintendo and their NES Classic Mini and SNES Classic Mini, and now Sega has made something similar for their Genesis, NEC has made a similar one for their TurboGrafX-16, and Sony has made a mini Playstation emulator console. There are ways to mod them to add more ROMS, too (and emulators for other systems).

There are also some various Raspberry Pi mods to put together a retro game emulator console.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Retro gaming is an expensive hobby. Much worse than other hobbies. I to set a budget and figure out what I actually want.

I want to collect Game Cube, Nintendo DS/3DS and some PS1/PS2 games. is largely an abomination.

Yes, if you want to collect the actual physical systems and media, it could get expensive.. Sometimes I've contemplated collecting some retro consoles and games, but I'm not sure I want to put so much money into
it. Last year I bought a Nintendo 64 and a Super Nintendo and some
games, but I realized I tend to use emulation a lot more often than playing the physical systems, so I sold them.

I do like retro gaming, and I've tended to go the route of emulation. There are so many ways to emulate retro game consoles these days.. I've been using emulators on my PC for years, but now you can also mod some consoles (such as a Nintendo Wii or an X-Box) to run emulators and retro games; there are also retro handheld game systems you can use to run emulators on; I've also seen emulators for smartphones. There's also
the more recent wave of the official 'Mini' emulator consoles - It
started with Nintendo and their NES Classic Mini and SNES Classic Mini, and now Sega has made something similar for their Genesis, NEC has made
a similar one for their TurboGrafX-16, and Sony has made a mini Playstation emulator console. There are ways to mod them to add more ROMS, too (and emulators for other systems).

There are also some various Raspberry Pi mods to put together a retro
game emulator console.

Nightfox

I go for emulation as well. I do have a real C64 with disk and tape drive, and a CRT TV, so I can experience the "authentic" thing, but the emulator is what I tend to use, when and if I want to try the C64, which isn't that often.

The CRT emultion in vice is very good, and it simply makes things easier. I've got a couple of USB gamepads, though joysticks would be better.

For DOS, I have some older machines going back to 486, though my original PC and 286 don't work. DosBox is again, good enough.

The problem with the retro-fad is this hardware won't last. It's old, and sadly, will die with replacement chips hard to get. You're only one hardware fault away from your machine not working. Disks and tapes WILL degrade. I've had old 5 1/4 inch floppies shed magentic material onto the drive heads of my 1.2M drives, which needed a pull apart and clean. Power supplies die.

If you can't do complex repairs, then its not a good investment.

For running software, emulation all the way. I only really want the old hardware for two reasons.

1: To use floppy disks, both 3 1/2 inch and 5 1/4 inch and
2: To see things on an original CRT, both VGA and a monochrome CGA one I have. Those visuals aren't easily replicated on an LCD screen.
and and maybe
3: Authentic PC squeaker.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

I go for emulation as well. I do have a real C64 with disk and tape drive, and a CRT TV, so I can experience the "authentic" thing, but the emulator is what I tend to use, when and if I want to try the C64, which isn't that often.

Yeah I have 2 C64s and an A1200. My retro Machine is a Pi 400. It's just nice to have everything in once place and it all works on a modern monitor. I get it, "It's not the real thing", but we are preserving history and making it on tap for us and the next generation.

|23|04Dr|16|12Claw
|16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |04(|14Noverdu.com|04)
|10Standard Ports for SSH/Telnet Web/HTTP://|14Noverdu.com:808
|20|15fsxNet/MRC Chat/Registered Doors!/50Nodes/No Time Use! Stay On!|16|07

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)

Retro gaming is an expensive hobby. Much worse than other hobbies. I
have to set a budget and figure out what I actually want.

I want to collect Game Cube, Nintendo DS/3DS and some PS1/PS2 games. PS3 is largely an abomination.

For emulation look into RetroArch. It is multi-platform both in terms of what it runs on and what it emulates (through "cores").

Within RetroArch you can use the dolphin-emu core to run both GameCube and Wii games. There are a multitude of cores for DS/3DS (as well as NES and SNES).

As for the PS3, the original "fat" PS3's with the silver trim are hardware backwards compatible with both PS1 and PS2 games. Though they are a bit pricey one could think of it as buying three consoles.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o for beeRS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Re: Re: Retro Games
By: boraxman to Nightfox on Tue Oct 18 2022 01:53 pm

The problem with the retro-fad is this hardware won't last. It's old, and sadly, will die with replacement chips hard to get. You're only one hardware fault away from your machine not working. Disks and tapes WILL degrade. I've had old 5 1/4 inch floppies shed magentic material onto the drive heads of my 1.2M drives, which needed a pull apart and clean. Power supplies die.

If you can't do complex repairs, then its not a good investment.

For running software, emulation all the way. I only really want the old hardware for two reasons.

Yeah, the aging hardware is a problem. At least we do have emulation so that we can still run the software. And sometimes there are modern solutions that look a bit like a classic machine, such as this RetroFlag GPi2 gaming case (for a Raspberry Pi CM4) that looks a bit like an original Nintendo Game Boy:
https://retroflag.com/gpi_case_2.html

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Re: Re: Retro Games
By: Otto Reverse to All on Tue Oct 18 2022 05:21 am

For emulation look into RetroArch. It is multi-platform both in terms of what it runs on and what it emulates (through "cores").

I've used RetroArch a bit, mainly on my modded Wii, which uses RetroArch to run older emulated games. On my PC (Windows), not too long ago I ran across Mednafen, which is another multi-system emulator using different cores. It looked like Mednafen also supports multi-player gaming over the internet.

Recently I bought a Raspberry Pi CM4 and a RetroFlag GPi2 gaming case (it's a hand-held gaming case that looks similar to an original Nintendo Game Boy). Its instructions mentioned using Recalbox as the emulation platform - I hadn't heard of Recalbox before, but it seems to work fairly well, but I've noticed a couple odd things. Aside from its built-in controls, it's suppoesd to be able to work with Bluetooth & USB controllers, but I've had a hard time getting either to work with it. Also, its controller configuration is a little wonky.. RetroPie is another one I've heard about for Raspberry Pi systems, and I've been tempted to give that a try.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

The problem with the retro-fad is this hardware won't last. It's old, sadly, will die with replacement chips hard to get. You're only one hardware fault away from your machine not working. Disks and tapes WI degrade. I've had old 5 1/4 inch floppies shed magentic material onto drive heads of my 1.2M drives, which needed a pull apart and clean. P supplies die.

If you can't do complex repairs, then its not a good investment.

For running software, emulation all the way. I only really want the o hardware for two reasons.

Yeah, the aging hardware is a problem. At least we do have emulation so that we can still run the software. And sometimes there are modern solutions that look a bit like a classic machine, such as this RetroFlag GPi2 gaming case (for a Raspberry Pi CM4) that looks a bit like an original Nintendo Game Boy: https://retroflag.com/gpi_case_2.html

Nightfox

The VICE emulator with CRT filters looks so close to the original its crazy. We'll never quite emulator the feel of loading up the disks, tapes, but they were always a little unreliable.

I nearly got myself TheVic, that remake which was a single board computer in an old Commodore Vic20 looking case. In the end I just decided to keep using VICE.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Retro gaming is an expensive hobby. Much worse than other hobbies. I
have to set a budget and figure out what I actually want.

Yeah, for original hardware and software, yeah, it can be killer.

But I do see other suggested emulated options, and that is totally viable.

I got into retro gaming/collecting ahead of the curve and was never a huge spender [I am the type who would rather find the deal than spend bank on
eBay], so much of my collection I got from people getting rid of what they thought was worthless, $1-$10 yard sale or thrift store finds, trades, etc. I have a decent NES collection [included a security modded "beater" NES, a complete in box Action Set, and around 60-70 games], a pretty solid Genesis collection [with SegaCD and 32x], a reasonable Gameboy collection [including
a vintage clear-case DMG], a beautiful SNES with a few of my favorite games,
a decent smattering of Gamecube, PS1, etc. Many of the things I got for cheap, I would never pay current prices for, to be honest.

I do tend to play in emulation more than on hardware. With small kids, I
don't like leaving it all set up for too long. Prior to kids, I would have
one machine or another, but now, not so much. Perhaps when we redo the TV
room downstairs, I have thing nicely set up in a cabinet and have a full on display case, but as of a move in 2020, they are mostly been in boxes, with
me only taking things out occasionally and putting back.

I do have several vintage PCs [late 90s/early 2000s] for DOS and era-appropriate gaming and tend to use those. The desktop tower and a big chunky laptop are my go-to machines. I have another I am fixing up and I have
a recapped and somewhat restored Macintosh Classic I adore but rarely use. I have an iMac 3G DV in storage which is working ok, but needs a new hard
drive, but don't have the time. Honestly, I have gotten rid of some nice machines in the past few years, because for PCs and Macs, part of my fun is fixing them.

For emulation, I think the best thing to get down is the "feel". If
emulating, invest in adapters for original controllers. I have a decent complement for Wii [mine is hacked and I do some emulation with that when I want a "sofa" experience] and USB ones for various computers. From there, you honestly have a slightly better experience with emulation rather than
hardware, since less clutter and you can save states. With things like the
PS1, you can have a cleaner upscale if you like. One of these days I will invest in a OSSC, but for now, I have a cheapy RBG/SCART to HDMI converter which is only decent [some latency, but not terrible, but much much better
than most TVs with analogue signals], for when I hook things up, so emulation often wins out just for that.

As for recommendations, collect what you most value. If it happens to be a particular set of games from your childhood, cool. If it is all games of X series, awesome. However, unless you are independently wealthy there is no chance, nor any compelling reason to go for complete collections of things
like NES, SNES, etc. To get the rarer stuff, you are only fighting with obsessive collectors at this point.

There is a middle ground, between emulation and hardware. You can get into
the whole FPGA scene with a MiSTer. Sure, you are typically playing with
ROMs, but you are dealing with cycle-accurate behavior on FPGA cores [which
is effectively identical to the hardware represented], but with the benefit
of new [not rotting/potentially failing 20-30 year old electronics]
hardware, excellent video options, etc.

Anyway... just thoughts.

-ph

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net (21:1/172)

I know this is a very subjective thing and I say to each their own
(amen!) but for me personally, emulation will never ever satisfy my
own personal retro needs.

With that said, with patience and a willingness to trudge through the
various Atari/Amiga/whatever forums as well as EvilBay, a person can
find good deals on solid older equipment to enjoy. That's what I've
done for the items that I didn't acquire during the Atari ST's heyday (my personal retro "fun" choice).

I think a person needs to chart out a path for what they want to
accomplish. For example, I have a Mega ST4 that runs my BBS. It fills
that need. Check. I have a Mega STe that is the top-of-the-line model for
the ST's, perfect for gaming, MIDI, programming, MOD's, etc., so I don't
have to worry about pulling my BBS offline everytime I want to shake the
house with a good MOD or MIDI file or play Ultima IV. Check. I have an
Atari STacy. Portable! I can take my retro Atari ST vibes with me any
where I want to go. Check.

There are several other (various) ST models out there. Do I need them?
No. I filled my "niche" hobby with specific models for my needs.

I think this is/was a far better strategy than just buying everything
Atari "willy nilly", and the same strategy would apply to any retro
situation.

As always, have fun and enjoy yourselves, fellow adventurers! :)

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

I know what you mean about filling the niches... I do have a bunch of
800xls (most of which were from buying lots on eBay because of one or two
rare items I wanted, but had to buy the whole lot).

The 1200xl's were all deliberate (though I admit, at 5 I've "overniched"
that one). Most of the multiple 800xl's and 1200xl's were gonig to be
for a multi-game/multi-bbs project that I decided to abandon because it's
hard enough to keep one node busy these days.

Also wanted one 800 (maybe 2, one stock, one incognito). So I have the "stock" one.

But never wanted a 600xl, or 400, or 65xe. I did get a 130Xe, but that
was mostly because it was a sweet deal, in box, perfectly clean with no yellowing and matches the ST's it's sitting next to.

Same with the ST line... Falcons, TT, Megas, Mega STE's... I still have
the 520s (without the F) for nostalgia since that was my first... but no
desire to have any STFMs.

Other than that, got a C128 for "trade", Apple ][e that belonged to a
former roommate and I did buy a //c (before getting the ][e) because my
first computer experiences at school were Apple (and that's what my
friends had, but my dad bought an Atari for the games, and ... that's
where it went from there).

I use emulation to test things sometimes, or to do maintenance (like
using warp speed on Altirra to make copies of large ATR's) but most of
that is for eventually using on real hardware.

That said, I'm close to getting an ST BBS running in emulation and
perhaps in the cloud on Azure.. Just not sure if I want to tell anyone.
;)

oops.

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

For me, I think there's only 2 other Atari models that I would like to (eventually) have. One's a TT030 of course. The other one would be an
original 520ST that I could modify and upgrade as far as possible. Like
you, that one's on my list because it was the very first ST I owned. :)


/\
Dark><Lord
\/

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

I know this is a very subjective thing and I say to each their own
(amen!) but for me personally, emulation will never ever satisfy my
own personal retro needs.

<snip>

I actually "discovered" your BBS for the first time yesterday and am having fun exploring the Atari BBS games :) I hadn't seen those growing up, super neat.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

On 20 Nov 22 15:38:46 esc wrote...

I know this is a very subjective thing and I say to each their
own (amen!) but for me personally, emulation will never ever
satisfy my own personal retro needs.

<snip>

I actually "discovered" your BBS for the first time yesterday and am
having fun exploring the Atari BBS games :) I hadn't seen those
growing up, super neat.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64) * Origin: m O N T E R
E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

To which Commodore Clifford replies...

Feel free to stop by STar Fleet HQ too. I think we have some that
DarkForce doesn't.

bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

On 20 Nov 22 15:38:46 esc wrote...

I actually "discovered" your BBS for the first time yesterday and am
having fun exploring the Atari BBS games :) I hadn't seen those
growing up, super neat.

To which Darklord replies...

Coolness! Let me know what you think. For board games, some of them are
really great. Others will just drive you mad. :)


/\
Dark><Lord
\/

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

Re: Re: Retro Games
By: phiax to MATT MUNSON on Fri Oct 21 2022 07:54 am

This is why some folks resort to piracy to get their retro games. I mean if you really want something affordable, just nab a flash cartridge with a microSD card for your console. Even virtual boy has one nowadays. You'll probably have to get creative for stuff that uses discs, but still, just downloading the games and putting on a flash cart is more affordable than anything nowadays.

I swear, unless we can somehow combat price inflation for retro games, the only way you can even play one of these things in the future is either hand-me-downs or having the GDP of a small town to buy everything you need.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: -=[conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS]=- (21:4/141)

This is why some folks resort to piracy to get their retro games. I mean if you really want something affordable, just nab a flash cartridge with
a microSD card for your console. Even virtual boy has one nowadays.
You'll probably have to get creative for stuff that uses discs, but
still, just downloading the games and putting on a flash cart is more affordable than anything nowadays.

I swear, unless we can somehow combat price inflation for retro games,
the only way you can even play one of these things in the future is
either hand-me-downs or having the GDP of a small town to buy everything you need. --- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32

Yeah, this is what depresses me about the whole thing. I really enjoy playing games the way most people would have back in the day, with an unmodded console (with the exception of maybe chips to play CD-Rs) on a CRT with original media. However, with the prices of games right now, I don't blame people for just emulating everything instead.

That said, I feel like a lot of the more expensive games are only being bought by people who expect to make a profit. Like Beanie Babies in the 90s.
If that's true, then the bubble has got to burst eventually, and they become worthless to those people, meaning they become cheaper for us who actually want to play them. I mean what game is going to pay like 300 dollars for a copy of Burning Rangers on Saturn? No game is worth that much!

... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, Uk. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)

Re: Re: Retro Games
By: Cobradile to NightCat on Sat Mar 18 2023 12:39 am

Yeah, this is what depresses me about the whole thing. I really enjoy playing games the way most people would have back in the day, with an unmodded console (with the exception of maybe chips to play CD-Rs) on a CRT with original media. However, with the prices of games right now, I don't blame people for just emulating everything instead.

A couple years ago, I bought a Super Nintendo and a Nintendo 64 with some games, intending to set them up and play them. I thought it would be fun to play some of the games on the actual hardware. However, I ended up not really feeling very motivated to set them up, and I felt like the consoles would add clutter to my space. I felt like I'd prefer emulating them on some of the devices I already have. I have a Nintendo Wii that I've modded and installed emulators on, and it can emulate muultiple systems. I can also emulate multiple systems on my desktop PC.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

That's fair, some people prefer the convenience of emulation. For me personally, it just feels very off. I only use emulation as a last resort. I am glad it;s a thing, though, for archival purposes, and it makes homebrew development a lot easier! :D

... Error 3032 - Recursion error. See error 3032.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, Uk. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)

On 19 Mar 23 01:52:06 Cobradile wrote...

That's fair, some people prefer the convenience of emulation. For me personally, it just feels very off. I only use emulation as a last
resort. I am glad it;s a thing, though, for archival purposes, and it
makes homebrew development a lot easier! :D

To which Darklord replies...

Totally agree. Emulation will never hold the appeal for me that the
actual hardware does. Yeah, it's cool, it's amazing and there are
incredibly talented people supporting it. It will just never be the same
for me to sit down at a Windows PC and start an emulator for my Atari ST
as it is to sit down in front of my Mega ST4, Mega STe or STacy and
actually use them. I'm a dinosaur - sue me. :)


/\
Dark><Lord
\/

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

I totally agree as you are well aware DarkLord, real hardware is what
floats my boat! I did not own a 16bit atari back in the day. LOVE EM now!


Bikerbob

On 20 Mar 23 14:25:04 Darklord wrote...

On 19 Mar 23 01:52:06 Cobradile wrote...

That's fair, some people prefer the convenience of emulation. For
me personally, it just feels very off. I only use emulation as a
last resort. I am glad it;s a thing, though, for archival
purposes, and it makes homebrew development a lot easier! :D

To which Darklord replies...

Totally agree. Emulation will never hold the appeal for me that the
actual hardware does. Yeah, it's cool, it's amazing and there are incredibly talented people supporting it. It will just never be the
same for me to sit down at a Windows PC and start an emulator for my
Atari ST as it is to sit down in front of my Mega ST4, Mega STe or
STacy and actually use them. I'm a dinosaur - sue me. :)

/\
Dark><Lord
\/

To which Bikerbob replies...


--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

On 20 Mar 23 14:25:04 Darklord wrote...

On 19 Mar 23 01:52:06 Cobradile wrote...

That's fair, some people prefer the convenience of emulation. For
me personally, it just feels very off. I only use emulation as a
last resort. I am glad it;s a thing, though, for archival
purposes, and it makes homebrew development a lot easier! :D

To which Darklord replies...

Totally agree. Emulation will never hold the appeal for me that the
actual hardware does. Yeah, it's cool, it's amazing and there are incredibly talented people supporting it. It will just never be the
same for me to sit down at a Windows PC and start an emulator for my
Atari ST as it is to sit down in front of my Mega ST4, Mega STe or
STacy and actually use them. I'm a dinosaur - sue me. :)

To which Commodore Clifford replies...

Same here... I generally only use emulation if I need to test something I
don't have hardware for, or sometimes just when I'm doing dev-ish work
and need the speed.

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

That's the cool thing about retro - all the stuff we missed in our youth
we can relive now. :)



/\
Dark><Lord
\/

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

That's the cool thing about retro - all the stuff we missed in our youth we can relive now. :)

not only old stuff. new stuff for old platforms is often equally exciting and worth your time and sometimes also money. Many great new titles for old platforms (Atari, C64, Spectrum, Amiga) just go for free and are more than a legitimate full game for the platform if you compare to the old titles.

I constantly jump between Amiga and C64 with such examples like:
- C64: Lykia,RobotJetAction, Soulless1 and 2, Space Lords Centaurus, Nixy, FreeSpin
- Amiga: Shadow of Sergoth, Dawn Series, Worthy, SkillGrid, Maria: Renald's Revenge.

Above games bring many top amiga and c64 games from the past, down the ladder!

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o for beeRS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Nightfox wrote to Cobradile <=-

A couple years ago, I bought a Super Nintendo and a Nintendo 64 with
some games, intending to set them up and play them. I thought it would
be fun to play some of the games on the actual hardware. However, I
ended up not really feeling very motivated to set them up, and I felt
like the consoles would add clutter to my space. I felt like I'd prefer emulating them on some of the devices I already have. I have a
Nintendo Wii that I've modded and installed emulators on, and it can emulate muultiple systems. I can also emulate multiple systems on my desktop PC.

Goldeneye is on XBox now :-)




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Re: Re: Retro Games
By: Jimmy Anderson to Nightfox on Fri Mar 24 2023 08:22 pm

Goldeneye is on XBox now :-)

I've never played Goldeneye, but I've always heard it was a popular N64 game.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Oh yeah, I love all the exciting "new" stuff that's been engineered for
my Atari's. Mass storage with devices like the Ultrasatan (2 SD card
slots), accelerators, RAM add-ons, TOS decoders, and on and on and on...

Oh, almost all games have been HD and later TOS version enhanced and
adapted which is really cool (I know, the Amigan's have WHDload). :)


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Dark><Lord
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--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

Oh yeah, I love all the exciting "new" stuff that's been engineered for
my Atari's. Mass storage with devices like the Ultrasatan (2 SD card slots), accelerators, RAM add-ons, TOS decoders, and on and on and on...

Hey there! I missed the whole Atari thing growing up but would like to find my way into it a bit. I have a 1040ST with an Ultrasatan and gotek. I would like to accelereate it and figure out all what other addons would be useful. Really I intend to just use it for gaming. Any chance you could give me some advice? :)

I have a terriblefire card which I intended to use here but am not sure how to go about it. The Amiga world was much more straightforward in this regard, so help is appreciated.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

There are several users and message threads over at Exxos Forums about
the TF accelerator and how to use it with Atari ST's. If I were you I'd
check them out:

https://exxosforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

He has an online shop that has other accelerator options as well. I'd
check those out too.

Another very useful upgrade(s) is from the Thunde team. Check out these
web pages for more info:

https://wiki.newtosworld.de/index.php?title=Storm_ST

https://wiki.newtosworld.de/index.php?title=Cloudy

https://wiki.newtosworld.de/index.php?title=Lightning_ST

If you've not upgraded them yet, you can get a keyboard upgrade kit, the
"TT Touch2" from Best Electonics. They also sell a good replacement
mouse, the True Mouse, although it's a bit expensive:

https://www.best-electronics-ca.com/falcon.htm (about 1/2 way down)

You could also go with the MouSTer replacement:

https://retrohax.net/the-mouster-project-is-here/

And for that retro feel, 'cause you know you want to call BBS's, get the WiModem232 from the CBMStore:

https://www.cbmstuff.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=59?

Oh, grab one of the excellent Dell 27" monitors that work with the ST and
an UBE adapter as well. We must have good visuals! :)

That should keep you busy for a while... :)


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Dark><Lord
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* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

That should keep you busy for a while... :)

Thanks :)

Yeah, I think the major thing that I'm trying to wrap my head around is what TOS I should use and how to install the accelerator. So far everything else seems pretty straightforward. But now I have a lot of money I'm going to wind up spending, thanks for the links haha.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

On 01 Apr 23 03:25:39 esc wrote...

That should keep you busy for a while... :)

Thanks :)

Yeah, I think the major thing that I'm trying to wrap my head around
is what TOS I should use and how to install the accelerator. So far everything else seems pretty straightforward. But now I have a lot of
money I'm going to wind up spending, thanks for the links haha.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64) * Origin: m O N T E R
E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

To which Commodore Clifford replies...

One of the "homebrew" TOS variants, EmuTos is also available as a
bootable disk version. That way you can use it without burning roms and
just boot it when you want it.

https://emutos.sourceforge.io/

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

On 01 Apr 23 03:25:39 esc wrote...

That should keep you busy for a while... :)

Thanks :)

Yeah, I think the major thing that I'm trying to wrap my head around
is what TOS I should use and how to install the accelerator. So far everything else seems pretty straightforward. But now I have a lot of
money I'm going to wind up spending, thanks for the links haha.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64) * Origin: m O N T E R
E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

To which Darklord replies...

Here's what I use and my rationale behind it:

I use TOS v2.06 because it's the "modern" TOS with lots of great
features.

I use TOS v1.04 (via a TOS switcher) because it will still run most of
those games that do break under a newer TOS version. Now, that might make someone ask, "then why don't go with TOS v1.0 or 1.2 for the best compatibility?". That's a fair question, and the reason(s) why are
because TOS v1.0 is so slow and buggy that I can't stand it. Also, the
support of mass storage is greatly improved from TOS v1.4 up and since I
have mass storage devices (hard drives, Ultrasatan SD card readers) on
every Atari ST I own, I go with TOS v1.4 on the bottom end.

To top all that off, P.Pera's website of HD adapted games that fixes most
of the incompatibilites with newer TOS versions does away with that one argument. There are something like 1600+ titles there he's fixed... Good
stuff! :)


/\
Dark><Lord
\/

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

On 01 Apr 23 03:25:39 esc wrote...

That should keep you busy for a while... :)

Thanks :)

Yeah, I think the major thing that I'm trying to wrap my head around
is what TOS I should use and how to install the accelerator. So far everything else seems pretty straightforward. But now I have a lot of
money I'm going to wind up spending, thanks for the links haha.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64) * Origin: m O N T E R
E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

To which Bikerbob replies...

Remember you said you intend to use this for gaming.. Nothing that you
are looking will be compatible with games. All games will run in MED or
LOW res, and at 8mhz the best.. SOME might run at 16mhz.. but none will
work properly past that point.

Just FYI

James

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

I use TOS v2.06 because it's the "modern" TOS with lots of great
features.

Sweet, ok, so this is for basic daily computing needs. Got it.

every Atari ST I own, I go with TOS v1.4 on the bottom end.

Makes sense. So I need to have a TOS decoder and switcher, I gather?

To top all that off, P.Pera's website of HD adapted games that fixes most of the incompatibilites with newer TOS versions does away with that one argument. There are something like 1600+ titles there he's fixed... Good stuff! :)

Awesome, this is key info for me :P

I think what makes the most sense in the near term is if I figure out the TOS stuff and have everything working as expected, I can move forward with getting the TF accelerator to work. That seems like it's got some details buried in threads on the forum but I don't think I've seen a cohesive "do this to install an accelerator in your 1040ST" thing anywhere :P So I suppose I should prepare for more of a deep dive when I get to that point.

Separate question for you - think it'd be worthwhile to host an Atari BBS in an emulator? Are there cool exclusive doorgames and stuff?

Again, much appreciated, cheers.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

Remember you said you intend to use this for gaming.. Nothing that you
are looking will be compatible with games. All games will run in MED or LOW res, and at 8mhz the best.. SOME might run at 16mhz.. but none will work properly past that point.

Gotcha, so is what you're saying here that basically for best gaming experience leave it as close to stock as possible?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

On 03 Apr 23 22:59:22 Bikerbob wrote...

To which Bikerbob replies...

Remember you said you intend to use this for gaming.. Nothing that
you are looking will be compatible with games. All games will run in
MED or LOW res, and at 8mhz the best.. SOME might run at 16mhz.. but
none will work properly past that point.

Just FYI

James

To which Darklord replies...

Well...that's not *exactly* right. It's 100% accurate if you're talking
about unmodified, factory original games. However, most of the adapted
games from sources like klaz, P.Pera etc, will run with increased RAM,
hard drives, newer versions of TOS and increased speeds. For example, I
have been pleasantly surprised by how many games work without issue on my
40mhz 68030 powered Pak 68/3 board in my Atari STacy.

Just an observation. :)

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Dark><Lord
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--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

On 04 Apr 23 00:04:29 esc wrote...

I use TOS v2.06 because it's the "modern" TOS with lots of great features.

Sweet, ok, so this is for basic daily computing needs. Got it.

every Atari ST I own, I go with TOS v1.4 on the bottom end.

Makes sense. So I need to have a TOS decoder and switcher, I gather?

To top all that off, P.Pera's website of HD adapted games that
fixes most of the incompatibilites with newer TOS versions does
away with that one argument. There are something like 1600+
titles there he's fixed... Good stuff! :)

Awesome, this is key info for me :P

I think what makes the most sense in the near term is if I figure out
the TOS stuff and have everything working as expected, I can move
forward with getting the TF accelerator to work. That seems like it's
got some details buried in threads on the forum but I don't think
I've seen a cohesive "do this to install an accelerator in your
1040ST" thing anywhere :P So I suppose I should prepare for more of a
deep dive when I get to that point.

Separate question for you - think it'd be worthwhile to host an Atari
BBS in an emulator? Are there cool exclusive doorgames and stuff?

Again, much appreciated, cheers.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64) * Origin: m O N T E R
E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

To which Darklord replies...

Honestly, if you're going to be using the adapted games from the source I mentioned, TOS v2.06 will be fine for most games. I can't absolutely say
for all games though. It's nice to have the TOS decoder if you ever do
need to "downshift" for compatibility reasons.

Hmm, running an Atari ST BBS under emulation? Well...in a nutshell, good
luck. :) To the best of my knowledge (and someone can jump in and
correct me on this if it's not accurate), only 1 person has ever got the
serial port stuff working under emulation for a BBS. It's also my grave understanding getting it working almost put that person in a looney-bin.

Now 8bit Atari's? That's a whole different story. There are a ton of
emulated Atari 8bit BBS's.

Hope this helps.


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Dark><Lord
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--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

On 06 Apr 23 22:10:50 Darklord wrote...

To which Darklord replies...

Honestly, if you're going to be using the adapted games from the
source I mentioned, TOS v2.06 will be fine for most games. I can't absolutely say for all games though. It's nice to have the TOS
decoder if you ever do need to "downshift" for compatibility reasons.

Hmm, running an Atari ST BBS under emulation? Well...in a nutshell,
good luck. :) To the best of my knowledge (and someone can jump in
and correct me on this if it's not accurate), only 1 person has ever
got the serial port stuff working under emulation for a BBS. It's
also my grave understanding getting it working almost put that person
in a looney-bin.

Now 8bit Atari's? That's a whole different story. There are a ton of emulated Atari 8bit BBS's.

Hope this helps.

To which Commodore Clifford replies...

So, ESC... First let me apologize for not getting back to your email. I
had intended to write something more detailed than I had the time for at
the moment and just got sidetracked (things went nuts around the holidays
and really are just now starting to calm down).

DarkLord is right... only one guy that I know of ever pulled it off, and
it was a pretty customized environment. He made it very crystal clear
that he "did not want to be anyone's Yoda" in that regard. It was still
pretty unstable and never quite worked right.

I've also done some dabbling with it (though to be honest, I'm not much
of an emulation person, but I thought I'd try it out just to see if it
could be done). I never really like the results and kinda just left it
at that point.

The real problem with the ST emulators is that they're really designed
more for gaming. Things like properly emulating a modem didn't seem to
be on the to-do list... so while you might be able to run a Term program
ok in emulation with a bit of work, the control signals that the BBS
relies on (for say, knowing when someone dropped carrier) don't seem to
work right.

Considering like I said that I personally have no use for it since I'm
not big into emulation and because we kinda have more BBS's than we can
support (the ST BBS's are even more the red-headed stepchildren as many 8-bitters don't consider us "real Atari") I probably won't be putting
much more effort into it anytime soon.

But as DarkLord says, good luck if you take the challenge on!

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

Nightfox wrote to Jimmy Anderson <=-

Re: Re: Retro Games
By: Jimmy Anderson to Nightfox on Fri Mar 24 2023 08:22 pm

Goldeneye is on XBox now :-)

I've never played Goldeneye, but I've always heard it was a popular N64 game.

It is - and one of the original FPS - first one with multiplayer I
THINK - but not sure...




... Lymph (v.), to walk with a lisp.
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Re: Re: Retro Games
By: Jimmy Anderson to Nightfox on Fri May 05 2023 09:15 pm

Goldeneye is on XBox now :-)

I've never played Goldeneye, but I've always heard it was a popular
N64 game.

It is - and one of the original FPS - first one with multiplayer I
THINK - but not sure...

If you consider all platforms (not just N64 or console), Doom (1993) had multi-player support. Heretic (1994, for PC) also had multi-player, from what I remember.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
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If you consider all platforms (not just N64 or console), Doom (1993)
had multi-player support. Heretic (1994, for PC) also had
multi-player, from what I remember.

Yeah, I was going to reply to this but then I figured I'd wait and see if someone else already had. Goldeneye *might* be the first multiplayer on console, but it's definitely not the first multi-player FPS. Depending on how far you want to stretch the definition of FPS, that *might* be Midi Maze on
the Atari ST, which dates back to the late 80s.

---
* Origin: Telnet: bbs.WalledCTTY.com:1989 - Fort Collins, CO USA (21:2/145)

Re: Re: Retro Games
By: Jimmy Anderson to Nightfox on Fri May 05 2023 09:15 pm

I've never played Goldeneye, but I've always heard it was a popular N64 game.

It is - and one of the original FPS - first one with multiplayer I
THINK - but not sure...

The game was fine but controls were lacking, even for its day. If you picked the midget character for multiplayer you were at an advantage because many players had trouble moving the aim down to shoot at you. Oh, the memories...

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
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On 06 May 23 07:57:50 Abbub wrote...

If you consider all platforms (not just N64 or console), Doom
(1993) had multi-player support. Heretic (1994, for PC) also had multi-player, from what I remember.

Yeah, I was going to reply to this but then I figured I'd wait and
see if someone else already had. Goldeneye *might* be the first
multiplayer on console, but it's definitely not the first
multi-player FPS. Depending on how far you want to stretch the
definition of FPS, that *might* be Midi Maze on the Atari ST, which
dates back to the late 80s.

To which Darklord replies...

Glad you mentioned Midi Maze. I was going to if you hadn't. :)

Something like 16 Atari ST's, chained together by MIDI and all trying to
kill each other - perfect fun!

The box cover said it perfectly "Put on a happy face" but the "put on"
was crossed out and had "Kill" written in. The players avatars were round
happy faces in the game, to put that in perspective.

Great stuff, good times. Huge Atari ST fan here - still have a handful
and run The DarkForce! BBS on an Atari Mega ST4. :)

Power without the Price! / Have you played Atari today?

Righteousness incorporated... :D


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Dark><Lord
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--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

On 12 May 23 16:23:28 Darklord wrote...

The box cover said it perfectly "Put on a happy face" but the "put
on" was crossed out and had "Kill" written in. The players avatars
were round happy faces in the game, to put that in perspective.

Great stuff, good times. Huge Atari ST fan here - still have a
handful and run The DarkForce! BBS on an Atari Mega ST4. :)

To which Commodore Clifford replies...

I think everyone knows about our AtariNess by now. :) But we have to
keep spreading the word, right? Actually from what I remember, I think
the 8-bit version of MIDI Maze is actually compatible? I'm guessing the FujiNet setup for it wouldn't work (since it isn't a physical MIDI) but
if you have actual MIDI hardware for the 8-bit I'm pretty sure you can
have the STers and 8-bitters together.

So the final showdown at last!

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

On 13 May 23 07:36:56 Commodore Clifford wrote...

To which Commodore Clifford replies...

I think everyone knows about our AtariNess by now. :) But we have to
keep spreading the word, right? Actually from what I remember, I
think the 8-bit version of MIDI Maze is actually compatible? I'm
guessing the FujiNet setup for it wouldn't work (since it isn't a
physical MIDI) but if you have actual MIDI hardware for the 8-bit I'm pretty sure you can have the STers and 8-bitters together.

So the final showdown at last!

To which Darklord replies...

Well, here's what a quick google search revealed:

https://gamicus.fandom.com/wiki/MIDI_Maze


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* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

On 22 May 23 00:02:08 Darklord wrote...

Well, here's what a quick google search revealed:

https://gamicus.fandom.com/wiki/MIDI_Maze

To which Commodore Clifford replies...

Ok, so it does work.

I wonder if that Con of the North is still a thing? We have offices in Minnesota, so maybe I can figure out a way to expense it. :)

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

On 28 May 23 12:53:16 Commodore Clifford wrote...

To which Commodore Clifford replies...

Ok, so it does work.

I wonder if that Con of the North is still a thing? We have offices
in Minnesota, so maybe I can figure out a way to expense it. :)

To which Darklord replies...

Not a clue but I'm getting a mental image of us barging in, packing about
a dozen SC1224 monitors 'n ST's. Yeah! When they ask for an explanation
(as we're stringing MIDI cables), we just tell them to think early (real early!) token ring... :)


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--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

On 28 May 23 23:03:34 Darklord wrote...

Not a clue but I'm getting a mental image of us barging in, packing
about a dozen SC1224 monitors 'n ST's. Yeah! When they ask for an explanation (as we're stringing MIDI cables), we just tell them to
think early (real early!) token ring... :)

To which Commodore Clifford replies...

Uh, guys... this is a snowshoe salesmen convention......

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)

On 29 May 23 07:47:34 Commodore Clifford wrote...

To which Commodore Clifford replies...

Uh, guys... this is a snowshoe salesmen convention......

To which Darklord replies...

Or that...'cause I'm sure they would totally fall for that explanation,
ya know? :)



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Dark><Lord
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--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Running on real Atari ST Hardware! (21:3/171)