With many people now re-evaulating social media's place in their lives,
it would be a perfect chance to turn these people to BBS'ing and
message nets but the learning curve is just too much. Only "techie"
people would care to jump through all kinds of hoops to get something running.
How best to get packets around a country or between countries without an Internet to carry them? <-- open question for anyone really...
Now that we rely on the Internet to be the bridge between nodes and the backbone of FTN style networks (and many other networks) I fear we have lost lot of the means to be resilient should a bad actor(s) come along and hobble city or country by taking down its Internet connectivity. :(
How best to get packets around a country or between countries without
an Internet to carry them? <-- open question for anyone really...
On 12-19-21 14:49, Avon wrote to Atreyu <=-
My concern is around how to build communications resilience. When we
look back at the way POTS modems and calls over landlines worked, yep
the time to get a message from A to B and a reply back was longer. But
I wonder if the overall resilience of the communication was better?
Now that we rely on the Internet to be the bridge between nodes and the backbone of FTN style networks (and many other networks) I fear we have lost a lot of the means to be resilient should a bad actor(s) come
along and hobble a city or country by taking down its Internet connectivity. :(
How best to get packets around a country or between countries without
an Internet to carry them? <-- open question for anyone really...
On 12-18-21 23:11, McDoob wrote to Avon <=-
How best to get packets around a country or between countries without an Internet to carry them? <-- open question for anyone really...
First thing that comes to mind is packet radio. Hams have been using
this protocol since 1980.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet
Naturally, such a method of transmission would be severely
rate-limited, on the order of 10 kbit/s or less (less than 20% of the
How best to get packets around a country or between countries without Internet to carry them? <-- open question for anyone really...
First thing that comes to mind is packet radio. Hams have been using this protocol since 1980.
Naturally, such a method of transmission would be severely rate-limited, on the order of 10 kbit/s or less (less than 20% of the speed of ye olde 56k modem) even with good reception. Good luck watching YouTube on that!
Now that we rely on the Internet to be the bridge between nodes and the backbone of FTN style networks (and many other networks) I fear we have lot of the means to be resilient should a bad actor(s) come along and h city or country by taking down its Internet connectivity. :(
Its hard to answer. Its likely that if Internet connectivity becomes a serious problem, we all would have far greater things to worry about
than not being able to trade silly banter on some net only a fraction of the world cares for.
Yes this is an area of interest and has been for some time. I have never actually taken steps to try to get such a thing working though. For some reason it always felt hard to do, probably much more so that it is. I'm
a licensed amateur operator, not that active and where I am it's mostly VHF and UHF stuff... I have not done much with packet but yep, need to make some time to do so.
The other thing with this mode is it's rather limited to who can get on the air / use the frequencies and if done well is still probably limited to within a city or across a country using repeater networks... still that's better than nothing for sure :)
Yes this is an area of interest and has been for some time. I have never actually taken steps to try to get such a thing working though. For some reason it always felt hard to do, probably much more so that it is. I'm
a licensed amateur operator, not that active and where I am it's mostly VHF and UHF stuff...
The other thing with this mode is it's rather limited to who can get on the air / use the frequencies and if done well is still probably limited to within a city or across a country using repeater networks... still that's better than nothing for sure :)
If things got really bad connectivity wise, perhaps mailing USB sticks with mail between regions/countries and then propagate out via long range wifi could be a strategy? Either that or maybe Nick & I could train some carrier pigeons. ;)
Short distance LoRa mesh (Meshtastic and similar networks), longer distances - limited options (especially legal ones), the US DoD will go after us if we use their sats. :D
I don't mind a road-trip to your place to trade USB sicks... Since you live in the armpit of Ontario, would you be wearing a hefty amount of
Axe deodorant?
5KM Wifi Link (August 2021):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T98VsMe3oo
5KM Wifi Link (August 2021):Has he done any followup vids to this? It seems that there
would be constant fiddling with the alignment to keep things
operating at optimum.
5KM Wifi Link (August 2021): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T98VsMe3oo
Has he done any followup vids to this? It seems that there
would be constant fiddling with the alignment to keep things
operating at optimum.
On 12-21-21 21:20, Warpslide wrote to Vk3jed <=-
On 19 Dec 2021, Vk3jed said the following...
Short distance LoRa mesh (Meshtastic and similar networks), longer distances - limited options (especially legal ones), the US DoD will go after us if we use their sats. :D
What would be considered short & long distances in terms of LoRa?
I just watched some YouTube videos on it and some people were getting 2-3km on a quick test walking the dog and others were boasting ~20KM.
I see one video where someone got more than 100KM!
Just wondering if it would even be possible for someone like Nick and I
to communicate using something like this ~75KM away (and across a
stretch of Lake Ontario) while still getting decent data rates.
(Assuming Nick would even want to try something like this).
(I would be using US902-928 here in Canada)
On 12-21-21 11:20, Warpslide wrote to Avon <=-
On 21 Dec 2021, Avon said the following...
Yes this is an area of interest and has been for some time. I have never actually taken steps to try to get such a thing working though. For some reason it always felt hard to do, probably much more so that it is. I'm
a licensed amateur operator, not that active and where I am it's mostly VHF and UHF stuff...
The other thing with this mode is it's rather limited to who can get on the air / use the frequencies and if done well is still probably limited to within a city or across a country using repeater networks... still that's better than nothing for sure :)
As others have said, TCP/IP can still work, even if the internet is
down. If you had someone within a few KMs of you, you could still use long range wifi to exchange packets. Linus Tech Tips has done a couple
of videos about this subject:
If things got really bad connectivity wise, perhaps mailing USB sticks with mail between regions/countries and then propagate out via long
range wifi could be a strategy? Either that or maybe Nick & I could
train some carrier pigeons.
;)
On 12-21-21 21:51, McDoob wrote to Ogg <=-
Weather can definitely have an effect on signal reception, but no
amount of adjustment would improve on that.
I agree we may have far greater concerns but as for trading silly
banter... if the poop hit the fan, having a means of getting helpful / serious communications between parties within or between countries would surely be welcomed by folks otherwise cut off.
Hopefully FTN can play a part in that. The store to forward bit is still just as robust,
it's the how to forward bit that is my worry.
Either that or maybe Nick & I could train some carrier pigeons.
Got you covered. :)
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2549
On 12-22-21 08:36, Warpslide wrote to Vk3jed <=-
On 22 Dec 2021, Vk3jed said the following...
Either that or maybe Nick & I could train some carrier pigeons.
Got you covered. :)
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2549
OMG, that's hilarious. I've not seen that one before! LOL
Jay
... The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the
problem.
I just watched some YouTube videos on it and some people were getting 2-3km on a quick test walking the dog and others were boasting ~20KM.
I see one video where someone got more than 100KM!
The tech does seem capable of really good range, which is a point of interest for me. I'd like to see what the paths were like.
https://www.adafruit.com/product/4074
https://www.adafruit.com/product/3340
Looking forward to playing around with these. My father-
in-law lives about 9.2km away (as the crow flies), so once
I get more familiar with these modules I may try putting a
Pi at his place and see if I can get them talking to each
other.
On 12-24-21 14:50, Warpslide wrote to All <=-
My father-in-law gave me some cash for xmas, so I just ordered two Adafruit RFM95W modules to play with:
The encryption part intrigues me. It sounds like it operateas
in the frequency range that 900Mhz phones used to have, but
with encryption permitted.
The encryption part intrigues me. It sounds like it operateas
in the frequency range that 900Mhz phones used to have, but
with encryption permitted.
There is another version of this module that uses 433MHz which is the 70cm amateur radio band. Presumably you wouldn't be able to encrypt using
those frequencies. (And would need to be licensed to use).
On 12-25-21 08:01, Warpslide wrote to Ogg <=-
On 24 Dec 2021, Ogg said the following...
The encryption part intrigues me. It sounds like it operateas
in the frequency range that 900Mhz phones used to have, but
with encryption permitted.
There is another version of this module that uses 433MHz which is the
70cm amateur radio band. Presumably you wouldn't be able to encrypt
using those frequencies. (And would need to be licensed to use).
The encryption part intrigues me. It sounds like it operateas
in the frequency range that 900Mhz phones used to have, but
with encryption permitted.
There is another version of this module that uses 433MHz which is the 70cm amateur radio band. Presumably you wouldn't be able to encrypt using those frequencies. (And would need to be licensed to use).
Depenmds where you are. In Australia, 433 MHz is covered by the LIPD class licence, so no dramas using them here.
On 12-26-21 16:05, McDoob wrote to Vk3jed <=-
The encryption part intrigues me. It sounds like it operateas
in the frequency range that 900Mhz phones used to have, but
with encryption permitted.
There is another version of this module that uses 433MHz which is the 70cm amateur radio band. Presumably you wouldn't be able to encrypt using those frequencies. (And would need to be licensed to use).
Depenmds where you are. In Australia, 433 MHz is covered by the LIPD class licence, so no dramas using them here.
It's very different in North America. For the most part, encryption is
not allowed on ham bands, even with a license to transmit.
What threats do you worry about? Why would internet connectivity go down? Unreliable ISP? Cyber war? World wide catastrophe? Authoritarian regime that can shut down the (national) internet or a Great Firewall?
Yes this is an area of interest and has been for some time. I have never actually taken steps to try to get such a thing working though. For some reason it always felt hard to do, probably much more so that it is. I'm
a licensed amateur operator, not that active and where I am it's mostly VHF and UHF stuff... I have not done much with packet but yep, need to make some time to do so.
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